75: Empathy with Accountability with with ex-Navy SEAL TK Eppley

TK Eppley is a former Navy SEAL and the president of Vayu Aerospace Corporation, a company that builds affordable American drones for cargo transport over difficult terrains. They talk about the future of the drone industry, values that define a great company culture, and the empathy and accountability framework. 

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Empathy with Accountability with ex-Navy SEAL TK Eppley

Our guest is TK Eppley, a former Navy SEAL and currently the president of Vayu Aerospace Corporation that builds affordable American drones for cargo and or sensor transport over difficult terrains and other terrains. So welcome to the show, TK.

Thanks for having me, Steve.

It’s exciting to have you here. We’ve never had anyone running a drone company, and this is such a big trend and such an interesting, exciting thing, especially for us lay people. So I can’t wait to dig in to that. But before we go there, I’d like to learn about what’s been your journey, how you become a CEO of Vayu Aerospace.

Well, actually, I’m the president of Vayu Aerospace. So, you know, kind of getting into the tech thing, I was, as you said, I was an AVC for 20 years. In the last couple of years, I was an AVC, I kind of went to the tech side of the house. I went kicking and screaming at the time. But when I got down there, I, you know, I kind of fell back in love with it. I was always the guy that when the computers first came out, I figured out how to use it and things like that. I was a communicator. And then since I’ve retired, I’ve been very fortunate to be part of a number of companies where along the way, I learned a lot about tech and then I have ever increasing responsibility and it’s led me to where I’m at with Vayu today.

That’s awesome. So tell you a little bit about your framework. So in the pre-interview, we had a conversation about your management blueprint. So this broadcast is always, I’m always digging for those business frameworks that help people accelerate their businesses. And we talked about something that you call the empathy with accountability framework. So what do you mean by this and how does it work in practice?

Well, I think you can’t be a leader unless you understand that every day nothing’s about you. It’s about all the folks that work with you, for you, however you want to. I don’t talk about, you know, like, somebody’s like, oh, he’s at the top of the pyramid or the ladder and a leadership thing. I think it’s more elastic than that, where it’s, we work together and everybody has a specific, you know, task they’re supposed to do. It goes back to when I was a SEAL, there was an old Vietnam guy talking about his boss.

And one of the things he said was, his job is to be the decision maker. He’s very good at making decisions. Somebody was very good at being a communicator. Somebody was very good at being a machine gunner. Somebody was very good at being a medic. He was a good decider. And I think as a leader, once you say, hey, I recognize the contribution and the intelligence and integrity that everybody has, you’re not, you’re not like, big problems. And as a leader, one of the number one traits that you have to have is you have to have empathy, all right?

Because you have to be able to say, somebody is in a certain place at a certain time, and I have to be able to put myself somewhat in their shoes, and so I can help to solve the problem. But if you just have empathy, then we all sit around and we hug all day and we don’t get anything done. So you have to have the accountability with it. Those are the tougher conversations, but they’re great when you combine them with empathy like, hey, I think we spoke about this earlier. We hire somebody and we think we’re getting something, and there’s a certain thing they don’t know. All right. Well, okay. A lot of businesses will get out. We made a mistake.

My thing is to bring that person in and say, hey look, we thought you would know this and that’s partly on us to do that. So we’re going to put everything in your way to get you properly trained. All right. And there’s the empathy piece. All right. We’re going to work with you. We’re going to bring you up to speed. We’re going to invest in you. The accountability piece is like, hey, but at a certain time, at a certain place, we need a result, right? Because we’re running a business, we’re not running a charity, right? And so we need to have both because people work best when they have goals and guidelines. And empathy and accountability help to set up and manifest itself in goals and guidelines.

Being a leader isn't about a hierarchy; it's understanding that it's never about you, but about the collective effort. Effective leadership means recognizing and valuing the contribution, intelligence, and integrity of everyone within the team. Click To Tweet

So how do you draw the line? Where is the line that stands when it’s no longer the empathy that is dominant, but it’s the accountability that comes into the focus?

I think, again, the accountability piece is giving people a timetable. It’s saying, hey, by this date, we have to be done. So when I speak to other crowds and especially like leaders and CEOs of businesses, it’s like, hey, if you’re gonna let somebody go, it should never be a surprise to them when they get let go. Because if it is, you didn’t do enough along the way to try to coach them up, to try to get them in the center of the room and things like that, right? And some people self-select, right? They’re like, okay, I’m just not getting this and they’ll self-select.

And, but if you do have to let somebody go, and I don’t take that lightly, I just, it’s, anybody that likes getting, that says they’re good at firing people, I have a problem with, because you’re materially changing someone’s life. All right, somebody materially changed their life to say they want to come work at the organization that you’re at. And if you have to let them go, you’re in a negative way, making another material change to their life.

Accountability is about setting clear timelines and goals. When it comes to difficult decisions like letting someone go, it should never come as a surprise to the individual. Click To Tweet

And if you don’t take that into account, I’m not saying I’m not gonna do it, but I’m not gonna do it lightly. Right, because that’s the compact you should have. Here’s my example. If as a business, the business says, hey, we gotta let somebody go. You’re gonna walk into their office on a Friday or a Thursday, whatever day it is, and you’re going to say, hey, it’s not working out, this is your last day. You’re gonna lock them out of their computer, you’re gonna take away all their corporate stuff and you’re asking to pack up a box and you’re going to leave.

But yet, if somebody wants to leave of their own accord to go work somewhere else, we have this anachronistic view that they should give us two weeks notice. Why is that? There’s never been a balance there. What I try to do is I say, I try to create the balance, whether it’s in the personal relationships or how we build the corporation from, you know, making it a psychologically safe space to work. And I’m a big believer in that, where everybody’s opinion is valued. We might joke around and make fun of you a little bit. I don’t get it.

If you have an idea that’s like way out in left field somewhere. But most of the time when people come in, their ideas to the leader are not fully formed. It’s because the leader’s field of vision about what’s going on at the company is huge and theirs is more narrow. And if you, when people say that in order to help them grow, go, Hey, that’s a, that’s real with what you know, with where you’re at, that’s a really great answer. But what if I told you this and start adding things to them because now you’re, you’re ability to give away the accountability.

I can’t, as a leader, I can’t delegate responsibility. Every day of the week, it’s mine, but I can give all the accountability for as much as I possibly can and a little bit more to everybody because that’s what’s gonna help everybody grow. I give it to my direct reports, they give it to theirs and on out through the full extension of the business.

I agree with you that it’s up on the leader to train their people to provide all the resources that they need to be able to execute. I’m just wondering whether that is really empathy or that’s just part of the job that you have to, obviously you hire someone that you believed could be a good employee for you and you have to empower them and they have to give you tools of the job and you have to give, let them absorb it. I don’t know if that is empathy for me, but maybe I’m missing the point.

Well, no, I think it’s the size of the business too. I mean, you look at Amazon hires, like I think the number, the latest number is they hire about 330 employees a day. Right, so at what level does Jeff Bezos have impact on throughout the organization, right? How does that, with 100 plus thousand people that work for Amazon, for example, how do we, you’re doing that in smaller business units, but what culturally do you think? I have a small business that I run and I have direct impact over all the employees because I know every one of them, right?

And so I think where that changed of, family’s the wrong word, but you understand what I’m saying? There’s a closer bond because there’s not that many of us and we’re all in it together. As the company grows, and I think it’s different for every company. There’s a tipping point somewhere that says, hey, now we have to become more autocratic. That’s why human resources manuals exist. Because when it’s 10 people, we can all talk it out. When it’s 200 or 500, now you’ve got a thing.

And I think I said this when we were talking the other day is I like to build standards-based organizations. I always say knowledge isn’t king, execution’s king. So how do I get to a position where everybody is concerned about executing the goals? And we’re all kind of walking the same journey. I always, there’s a great saying that says, hey, just because you’re on the same bus doesn’t mean you’re going to the same place. And I want as an organizationally, there’s what I say and there’s what people hear.

And I want them to hear what my intent is because that helps with the execution and everything else. And so you get people on that bus and we’re all going to the same destination. That becomes much more difficult as the organization scales, right? And you try to be really protective of a culture as a leader, or you should, I think. And how do I do that when you go from 10 people to 100 or from 100 to 500, where is that? And those become the bigger challenges for leaders as they scale and grow a company.

So it’s all about the culture. You want to create a culture where people feel like that there is caring, the leader cares for them and then models the behavior and then everyone else will hopefully model the behavior or if they don’t, then they don’t fit the culture and maybe there’s a shift.

They feel a value, right? There’s a value thing there. Like they feel that their contribution is valued every day of the week. Because when I speak to groups, especially in my age group, what I call, you know, 55 to dead, that’s largely who runs America, right? If you go and you look at most of the companies out there, your Forge of Iron, it’s people in their fifties and older that are running it. And I’ve more than once, I’ve heard a CEO say to me, all these, and they’ll say, they’ll say millennials, which they really don’t mean millennials because the oldest millennials in their 40s already.

They mean the kids that are just out of school. I get 22 to 30 years old. I call them pre-family, pre-family employees, right? And like, I just can’t deal with them. I’m like, well, they’re retire, right? Because they’re there, they’re going to work. And how you, everybody’s equal, they’re not the same. So how I approach somebody, one person is not how I approach another person to get a result. And that’s part of the empathy, I’ve got to meet people where they’re at. And when I was growing up, you know, when I was in my 20s and 30s some years ago, it was a different culture. Like it was pre-internet. You did, you, I’m in the last generation of kids that went to college and got a typewriter instead of a computer.

And if you wanted knowledge, you had to go to the library or more importantly, you had to believe the adults. It’s almost like the Native American culture where they really value the chief because he’s had more trips around the sun. And so is he smarter? Not necessarily, he’s more experienced. And so you had to put your trust and faith in other people to tell you. Now, when I do speaking engagements and somebody kind of the tail end of the introduction is I was a SEAL, I can see people pick up their phones and they’re typing my name and just see if I’m full of crap. And they should, right? I mean, there’s that, you know, but that’s where we’re at now.

And so what a 28 year old, 25, 28 year old wants from a workday is different than somebody in their 40s. Yeah. But I want both of them, right? And I have, we have, I have some, some of our artisans that fabricate our aircraft, we have one gentleman that’s 59, 60 years old, and he works directly with the guy that’s 25. They both have two completely different ideas about how some of the problems should be solved. The 25-year-old is more empirical, this is what I learned in school, and the 60-year-old is more, hey, all my years of experience. The magic is when they both work together and they blend those ideas to make something better that neither one of them had imagined earlier that day.

People of different age groups bring unique expectations and perspectives to the table. Click To Tweet

And that’s why it’s so important that they work as a team so that they can cooperate and you have a culture which brings them together, so I’d like to shift gears here a little bit and talk about your business. You mentioned your fabricators and you know VAYU, your company is manufacturing drawers which is kind of a fairly new things. You call them computer with VINX. So what are the skills required to grow a computers with VINX company?

So, I think when you think about, I always look, what’s the process, right? And it’s, if we’re going to build it, what do I need to basically just build it, right? Selling it’s one thing, but what do I need to build the aircraft? I guess I need design people. I need the hardware in this case is the airframe. Right, so we have our head of fabrication is an amazing young engineer that is constantly working to make the aircraft lighter, more aerodynamic and all those things, right? And we get cleaner the more we do it, right?

Some of it is we have good software, but most of us, we are really smart people, all right? So it takes a fabrication team to build the airframe itself. Then on the other side, you have the software team and those are all, they’re aerospace guys. And I have an amazing, my director of software is, he’s an amazing, he’s got his doctorate in aerospace engineering. And, you know, every day of the week, there’s something that we’re trying to be additive to the process, right, from a software. So, you know, you’ve got the hardware, software, and then in between, you’ve got the integration piece, right?

And that’s the person that brings all that together, make sure that, hey, we’ve got the fuselage and we’ve got everything now, the lift fans for the V, because one of the drones is a vertical takeoff and landing drone, that the lift fans that get off the ground are integrated with the engine and all the electronics and everything like that. And it’s that process of teamwork. And it’s great. Like when I’m in my office and I’m doing spreadsheet stuff or doing business-related stuff, the minute I start to hear the CNC machines go or things going out, I want to go out in the shop floor and I want to see what they’re doing. Because it’s a living, breathing thing. The drones that you made five years ago aren’t what we’re making today, and we’re imagining what we’re going to do five years from now.

So how are these drones changing? What kind of drones are there?

So, we have, our family of drones starts with what we call the G1, which is a vertical and take takeoff and landing drone. It’s got a 13 foot wingspan, and with cargo and everything weighs about 25 kilograms. It will stay in the air for about eight hours to 10 hours and it’ll fly roughly 450 to 500 miles depending on, you know, environmental variables and things like that. So that drone in itself either, you know, you can fly in a big donut and put a camera on it and do overwatch, or it can do long haul delivery.

And so, people that typically, you know, in that class that drone might, those normal drones will stay aloft for three or four hours and some people want much longer duration and that’s what we can provide them. We make a large quadcopter that with cameras and sensors on it can stay aloft for about 70 minutes. Uh, and the, the industry standard kind of drones for that are about, they stay aloft for about 20, 30 minutes. And, um, we’re developing, um, an interior drone that we call the knuckle buster, which is a little, it’s about eight to 10 inch square with counter-rotating fans on it. So you have eight lift fans. It’s more of a law enforcement drone.

You get inside and do those types of things. And we have accessory kits that we’re developing for that. And then we have another one called the Pugilist that is a little bit bigger than that and a little bit more industrious. And, um, we were working out with potential customers, some of the use cases for that right now. Um, and every day of the week, it’s, it’s a blast to go into work because what we did even six months ago when I got here is not what we’re doing today. And I think that’s the, is unleashing people and saying, hey, why, you know, because my big question when I first got here was, okay, why are we doing it this way? I wasn’t doing it to be argumentative. I was doing it to get people to think that maybe just because we’ve always done it that way isn’t the way we should be doing it.

And once people understood that, you know, I was serious about productive change, amazing things started happening. We’ve done a food delivery demonstration in Northern Virginia. We’ve done a couple of shows where we’ve flown the aircraft at one and typical then in conference center type shows. And we have great feedback and great response to what we’re building. So how is Vayu different from other drone companies? How competitive is this market? Well, the quadcopter market is pretty competitive. But one of the differentiators that we’re using is we have all American.

We actually listed this way. We don’t have Chinese parts. When President Trump was the president, he signed an executive order for government used for drones used by the government that they cannot have any Chinese parts of them for anything that moves data. And so then that became part of the budget, part of the statute. And so we’re working with that standard. And there are a number of companies that for most enterprise basis, it doesn’t matter whether they use a DJI Chinese drone or use one of ours.

I think in certain industries like the energy industry or industries where what they wanna take pictures of or what they wanna use sensors for within their industry is their IP and they don’t want to potentially give it away. So they’ll buy a US drone. The other differentiator we have is usually in class, our drones stay aloft longer than other drones, and so it’s our, but the non, for us, the non-Chinese parts are the big differentiator along with the amount of time we can stay aloft.

Interesting. So definitely these are big differentiators. So where is this market going? What are the drones going to be used in a couple of years? What do you see?

I get this question all the time where people say, hey, can you guys fly this mission? Right. And so there is two parts to the question. One is, what is the aircraft capable of? And secondarily, what does the FAA allow us to do? All right. And so, the assumption when I first started contemplating building this company, and it was the FAA was combative with the drone industry. The more I’ve talked to the FAA and spent time with them, they’re not combative, but just like everything else, they want to ensure safety, right? Big insurance companies want drones to do roof inspections, right?

For example, one of the biggest insurance companies in the country, I was talking to their head of unmanned systems, and it’s one of the single largest expenses they deal with every year is paying for adjusters that have fallen off roofs. And so they want to get it. So for me, like, again, I say, I solve the transportation problem. They’ll wait for my drone to get certified by the FAA. And then in the process, they’re looking for a camera that is, or looking for software on a camera that’s sensitive enough to detect hail damage on a roof.

Right, so it’s a, there’s the thing. The FAA has to make sure that in a crowded airspace, meaning manned flight, other drones, everything else that goes on, that you can do it safely. Right, and so when you fly over people, buildings and roads, they want to ensure that these things aren’t just going to fall out of the sky. And because most of them are, they’re almost always controlled some way by a radio frequency or a cellular frequency. If you lose that, what happens? Right, and that’s part of that airworthiness thing and everything like that.

So as we walk through that process and the industry matures, people will get more used to seeing drones. Right, one of the big, you know, I think probably one of the biggest concerns is, is this thing surveilling me? Well, I don’t know, what is that for sensors? Who’s on the backend? But just like everything else, people worry about the drones surveilling them, but they don’t worry about their cell phone.


Which is probably one of the biggest, most intrusive surveillance devices ever devised. And we don’t, you know, we’ve moved past that. I think as this matures, we’ll do the same thing with the drug. It’s utilitarian, whether it’s Amazon, Walmart, any of the big delivery places are trying to manage and figure out a way to do that, and do it safely. More importantly, think about this. I want you for the next month, and I don’t know how it is at your house, but at mine, there’s stuff from Walmart showing up every day or from Amazon showing up every day on the front door.

How much of it weighs more than a pound? Right, very, very low. Actually about 83 to 85% of all the packages delivered weigh less than a pound, which is why they try to bundle and things like that. But we’re impatient as Americans. And so no, send them in all the different boxes you can. I don’t care. I don’t want to wait one more minute. With all that stuff being less than a pound, do we want the Amazon driver to pull into my neighborhood and walk to all the houses at one time, or do you just want a drone to go and drop it off? And how are people going to get used to that? What’s the adoption technology, right?

And as a drone manufacturer, I’m concerned about safety. Like if we use a tethered system to drop a package in somebody’s front yard, what if, you know, mystery comes out and wants to yank on the tether and pulls the drone out of the sky and it lands on them? Now it’s my fault. These are all things that the manufacturers and the FAA, for example, are contemplating. And how do we do that safely? All right. So the industry will mature as quickly as we can be safe and have greater worthiness so that we can all become certified, so to speak, by the FAA. And like I said, whenever I talked to the FAA, they were like, we want you guys to fly. We want this thing, but we have to be safe. And I totally agree. I’m in total agreeance with them. It’s just, how do we get there as an industry and how do we get there quickly? And I mean, you think, go ahead.

It sounds like a little bit like the autonomous cars debate. The cars are available. We could be driving them or they could be driving us. But who’s going to be responsible if there’s an accident and therefore there’s no breakthrough. So is this similar for drones that you’ve got the technology, but the regulation hasn’t figured this out or the regulators haven’t figured it out how it can be managed and therefore we just have to wait?

I think because it’s nascent, I think the difference between autonomous cars and UAVs are that we have almost a hundred year history of physically driving a car. And especially in America, we have a love affair with automobiles, right? We always have. UAVs by design are unmanned, hence the U, right? And so people, they’re used to it, but now it’s just a safety issue more than anything else, right? And I think that’s the, you know, I think with a car, for example, one of the worries I heard recently on a television show or something was that people are gonna, instead of getting an Ubers, they’re gonna have their autonomous car and when they’re drunk, they’re just gonna sit in there and hands off, so I’m not really driving the car. Well, is that the intent? No, probably not. But those are real things, right? Because now people will get behind the wheel when they’ve had something to drink and they’ll drive and be unsafe. Again, everything comes back to safety, whether it’s in an automobile, but especially with UAVs.

So how do UAVs actually navigate? Because I know that planes have their certain paths where they can go in the sky and they have to keep certain distance between each other. But is it the same for drones?

UAVs typically have, in normal settings, they have a 400-foot altitude limit, right? So, you keep them below the traditional civil aviation and commercial aviation. And-

How do they bypass each other? Are there similar rules?

Drones typically, we always say, it’s like there’s two ways to do it. You either get certified and you start getting waivers to fly what we call beyond visual line of sight. Because right now, unless you get a waiver, as a drone pilot, you need to be able to see the drone. All right. Well, for us, we’re going to need to get waivers because our drone will fly the better part of 500 miles. And you’re not, you lose the value if I got to follow behind in a truck while it’s flying, right? I mean, I might as well do what, if I’m going to inspect a pipeline, for example, with a camera, I might as well just physically inspect the pipeline if I have to drive. Of course. All right.

So our drones, our big drone in particular is autonomous, meaning it’s a pre-programmed flight plan and it executes. Now there’s pilot oversight and they’re watching the flight. They have a ground control station and they can take control of the airplane as needed, but it’s an autonomous flight and primary communications is cellular with a backup and satellite for iridium. And so most of the systems we like to be redundant.

We have two different GPSs on the airplane, on an airframe, and like that. So in, you know, one of the questions we get when someone’s like, hey, I’ve got an oil field in Texas, but my office is in Missouri, can I fly the airplane from Missouri and see what’s going on? Absolutely. All right, you’ll just have, you know, I will have a couple of people that are like technicians that will take the airframe out, get it all set up, get it ready to go.

When it’s ready to go, they’ll communicate with the pilot and from wherever remote station he is or she is, they can launch the airframe and monitor it because they’ve got a pre-programmed flight plan. So how is the air traffic control being done? Well, right now, it’s the air traffic control is keep the drones low and keep them away from traditional, you know, where traditional civil and commercial aviation fly.

But they’re not going to crash into manned aircraft, but what about other drones? Could they not crash into each other?

They could. There’s software out there now. There’s a few companies that are building software that if you have a camera, you know, you have your camera on your drone, and that software, it will pick up other, you know, other objects in the sky. And it is so sensitive that once it types a certain type of drone, it’ll say, oh, that’s a Mavic, that’s this kind, that’s an X code system, that’s this, right? And then there’s ADS-V, which is like the system of, it’s like a beacon almost, right?

And so there’s ADS-V in and ABDS out, right? There’s some restrictions on ABDS out right now because the FAA is still trying to figure out, hey, how do we manage? Since, civil and commercial aviation switching largely from the radio station hopping model, they’re starting to try to go to a GPS model. It’ll allow for more aircraft in a confined space and still be safe. They’re not there yet with the drones in my mind. And everybody’s, again, it’s an immature industry and we’re trying to figure that out.

So, what’s your vision, TK, for the unmanned aerial vehicles industry five years out? What are we going to see?

Much like everything else that solves a manpower problem, right? Today, for example, if a company, like if they’re power companies inspecting power lines, they put a helicopter out there and there’s an observer that takes pictures and everything that as they fly past every one of the high-tension lines, right? Five years from now that’s gonna be a drone or two years from now that’ll be a drone that’s going to do that, right? Pipeline inspections, things like that. Security. If now, you know, you send out, if you have a perimeter of security and all of a sudden there’s an intrusion, currently you might put two people in a car and send them out, send them out to that place.

In the future, you’ll just launch a drone and send it out there. So, you’re cutting down on manpower. Even one of the sister companies in our portfolio does drone mapping software. So, for construction and everything like that, drones have been used for a long time in construction. and the software that our sister company, Identified Technologies has, let’s just say that you’re moving a lot of dirt. Like you’re building some, hey, I’m gonna, here’s 25 cubic yards of dirt. Well, that software, we put a rope around it, so to speak, and that software will tell you, nope, it’s only 22 and a half cubic yards, go get more. Right, and so you can be very finite in what you do.

And so all of, I think the limit of what autonomous vehicles can do is going to be the limit of the imagination of the software and the sensors that are going to be put to use, right? And I said it when we started, I solve the transportation problem. Everybody looks at what the drone can do, but tell me what sensor you want on my drones and we’ll figure out a way to affix it to the drone. All right. I think that’s really once it’s not so much the drone itself. Yes, we’re going to have to do safety of flight and airworthiness tests and become certified. And we should, right? Just like everybody else in the aviation industry. But when you ask where it’s going, it’s going to be the limit of somebody’s imagination for what a sensor could do. And then the drone just is going to provide the platform for that sensor to be able to work.

So, when do you expect Amazon to be delivering packages to people with drones?

I don’t know. It’s funny because I’m not that closely aligned with what goes on every day. But I know that Amazon, from reading and just reading in the news, that Amazon let go or downsized their staff that’s working on the problem. So I don’t know. I know Walmart is putting a considerable amount of effort into drone deliveries. It’s a nascent program and they’ve got partners and everything that are helping out. So the drone delivery thing to me is, again, it comes back to safety of flight. How quickly can the industry and the FAA align to certify aircraft to fly over buildings, people and roads? All right, and-

Are you going to get it done?

No, of course we will. But again, it’s like, the FAA can’t get mad at the industry because we’re not there sometimes yet depending on what company it is. And we can’t get mad at the FAA because they want everything to be safe. But we all have our role to play here. And the quicker we can put aside our differences, and I always joke having worked for the government, when you work for the government, you don’t care how much things cost because you just want the problem solved.

Whereas as a business leader, business owner, everything to me is about, hey, I gotta manage, I’m managing my cost against my risk reward, right? How much is it gonna cost me to achieve a goal? And I try to apply the 80-20 rule because better sometimes is not good. And so a lot of days we just need to be really good. And I think as an industry, we’re all getting there. And it’s fun to be part of an adolescent industry, probably is the best word to describe it. It’s past the toddler stage, it’s an adolescent industry. And there’s some companies out there doing amazing things with drones.

So definitely, we are going to keep or I definitely going to keep an eye on Vayu Aerospace Corporation. So TK, if people would like to learn about your drones and what you can do for them and what you can manufacture, fabricate for them, and if they would like to reach out to you because they have some questions that you haven’t answered, where can they find you?

You can go to vayuaerospace.com, and we’re there. If you want to go check out our parent company and the great stuff that they do, you can go to alpine4.com and find the VAYU Aerospace tab and go there. Or alternatively, everyone can reach out to me on LinkedIn.

So definitely check it out. So v-a-y-u aerospace.com is the company’s website and alpine4.com is the current company. So thank you for coming on the show TK. I really enjoyed this great information that we have not heard here before and for our listeners if you enjoyed it please stick around and come back next week and don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and subscribe week and don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and subscribe to YouTube. Thank you.


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