72: Make Your Customer a Hero with Tyler Pigott

Tyler Pigott is the Founder and CEO of Lone Fir Creative, a digital marketing agency that gives structure to an entrepreneur’s vision. We talk about the StoryBrand framework, practical brand strategies, and how emotions influence buying behaviors. 

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Make Your Customer a Hero with Tyler Pigott

Our guest is Tyler Pigott, the founder and CEO of Lone Fir Creative, a digital marketing agency that gives structure to your vision and delivers the activities that bring it about. Tyler, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me, Steve. It’s fun to be here

I’m excited to have you and I want to start by asking you about your entrepreneurial journey. How does one become? The founder of a creative marketing agency.

Yes, generally if you ask any entrepreneur, I’d assume it’s pretty bouncy and it looks like a zigzag line, right? I have always kind of had an entrepreneurial itch kind of from the beginning. I grew up in a family where my dad ran a business growing up and grew that to be fairly large here on the West Coast. And so kind of grew up around that, right?

And so kind of had that kind of mindset, if you will, and started various little tiny companies here and there, started a DJ business when I was in college that helped me pay for college as I exited with no debt, which was incredible and kind of got through that. And I’ve kind of started a lot of different, I would call them almost side hustles for a lot of years, as I jumped into kind of more of the corporate side of PR and communications for about 15 years before starting this agency.

And so I started this agency in 2015, and in a lot of ways, I would say grew into the vision I have for it now versus having this perfect vision from day one, but really started with a lot of different kind of contracts, if you will, for sales and marketing support and sales and marketing helper strategy from the beginning, from previous endeavors that I’d had and kind of relationships I’d made. And then one thing led to another, some of those grew, those contracts grew, and I needed help with those.

And so first started bringing in contractors and then pretty quickly started hiring employees. and we’re up to about 20 right now, 20 employees, and a host of contractors that help deliver some of the services that we have. So yeah, that’s in a nutshell, in maybe 30 seconds or 60 seconds or less, kind of some of my entrepreneurial journey.

It sounds like a normal entrepreneurial journey. I would say that I don’t really believe that most people would have this grand vision that they start the business. You know, Michael talks about technicians starting businesses and then they develop the vision as they grow the business and it starts to take shape, the kind of clients that they acquire and then they find a way to be different in the marketplace and then the vision comes afterwards. So totally agree with you. It makes a lot of sense.

And oftentimes you don’t know what’s possible at the beginning, right? And so you start to understand more of what’s possible as you grow. And so then you kind of add some of those different elements to your vision that you’re kind of trying to chase after a build. But yeah, no, I think you’re right. Most entrepreneurs I talked to have a somewhat similar vision, so.

And the vision is a work in progress.

Always, yeah.

I remember when I was running my own business every, you know, just before the holidays, we closed the office and then we typically went for skiing between Christmas and New Year’s. And I always read a bunch of business books on these trips and then I started coming up with ideas and then hit the office beginning of January and I would present the, you know, the vision or whatever the plan next year. And I remember it was always different. So it was kind of an iterative process to figure it out, and it never was a final vision.

No, that’s exactly how it goes. I, for sure, I mean, I guess on my side, I have constantly tried to surround myself with people that push me in that vision and what’s possible. And some people, you know, maybe further down the road in the exact industry I’m in, and other people in completely different industries that allow you to kind of see what others are doing and talk to them about what’s possible and get their ideas and just kind of glean from different people along the way to kind of keep that vision out front.

I feel like you know with without vision people have no idea what to do and so I’m a huge kind of vision preacher, if you will, and making sure people know where we’re going and what we’re doing and honestly try to be transparent and some of the bumps along the way as things don’t necessarily unfold exactly like you anticipate they will ever. But yeah, I know I for sure, I’ve tried to surround myself with similar things where you’re reading books, listening to podcasts, talking to different people and trying to continue to build that vision moving forward as it changes.

Without vision, people have no idea what to do. Click To Tweet

Yeah, and some elements work and then they remain part of it and some don’t. But as you say, socializing that vision is the most important thing. So you keep people excited about that there is a vision, there is a direction, there is a bigger game, so that’s awesome. So as you have been building this business the last, I don’t know, six or seven years, have you relied on some of the business frameworks out there? Maybe you read a concept in a book, maybe someone helped you implement a system. So what did you, did you use any of these crutches, so to say, along the way?

Socializing that vision is the most important thing, so you keep people excited about that there is a vision, there is a direction, there is a bigger game. Click To Tweet

Totally. Yeah, no, I have read about most, I mean, I’m not going to say all, but many, many different frameworks. And then some of them you grab little pieces of and you implement, and some of them you kind of jump, you know, headfirst into. So one of the ones that we kind of grabbed onto probably about two to three years ago was called EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System. I’m sure many listeners have heard of that or familiar with it. Some of them maybe have jumped into the deep end of that over the past years as well.

So that’s a framework that we’ve used, maybe more so on the business side, as far as kind of starting from where we’re at now and where we want to go and really helping bring the team into it. So that’s more like the business side of a framework that’s kind of stuck over the years. And then we have a couple of different frameworks that we’ve followed or discovered along the way from an implementation of services side of things.

You know, one of the things as an agency, we’re constantly looking at how do we deliver repeatable results for clients? You know, it can’t just be a one hit wonder kind of moment for clients, and then you hope you can land on it again, but you do have to have a process and system and framework that you invite your employees into as they’re working to have success for those clients and those customers that have grown to trust us with their marketing and their sales. And so there’s numerous different sides. We have a couple of different those I know we’ll touch on.

One of them is StoryBrand. If you’re familiar with StoryBrand, StoryBrand is a messaging framework that really helps simplify messaging so that people listen and people understand the different products that you sell and the challenges that you solve for them. So that’s one of the things that we do from a branding positioning side of things. We do a lot of that work with clients. So that’s a kind of more of a delivery. So those are probably the two primary frameworks that we follow or use and spend a fair amount of time on. EOS internally from a management and execution standpoint. And then the server and framework, we do a lot of from a branding and delivery to clients.

StoryBrand is a messaging framework that helps simplify messaging so that people listen and understand the different products that you sell and the challenges that you solve for them. Click To Tweet

So, could you describe the StoryBrand framework for our listeners? What does it to for a client, what does it take to, you know, to develop it and use it?

So some people on the listening podcast probably have read about it, heard about it, done research. Maybe some people have read the StoryBrand book. Some people have talked to Business Made Simple, which is the organization that develops the StoryBrand framework. And Donald Miller is an author that wrote the book initially, but it’s a seven-part framework. And really the purpose of it is to get brands out of their way. There’s so many brands that, you know, want to talk about themselves and lead with why they’re so special and how long they’ve been in business and all these things in which they feel like maybe will be something that pushes customers over the edge into trusting them.

But reality is, is none of us actually buy products based on how long a certain company’s been in business or, you know, we’re actually buying things that solve problems, you know, buying things that solve challenges in our life. And there’s so there’s seven different parts to it. One is really understanding your customer or in the story brand framework, it’s called your hero. So who’s the hero of your story? And it’s called story brand specifically, so that you start to understand how do you tell the story of your brand or your company? And so you’ve got the seven different pieces of it.

And so really it’s that hero and really what are they looking for? What do they want in life or as it pertains to the specific service or product you offer? And then that hero or that customer has a problem usually. So there’s an external problem, which is maybe that thing they’re trying to solve. Then there’s an internal problem, which is essentially how is that external problem making them feel? Oftentimes it might make you feel inadequate or you might be overwhelmed or you might be scared of something or whatnot. And so you’re trying to solve that problem.

And then there’s a philosophical problem of, why should this be right or wrong? So you’ve got those two pieces that you spend a fair amount of time really uncovering and really positioning around because that’s how you’re going to lead with your messaging because people want to know the problem you solve. But then that third part of the framework is your guide. And so that’s when you start to introduce the brand or the company that’s gonna help lead you out of the challenge or problem that you’re dealing with as a customer.

And then you’ve got a plan of action, you’ve got a call to action, and then that’s gonna lead in success or failure. And so most brands really try to lead you along that path of what life’s gonna look like after you’ve purchased their product or worked with them. And it’s generally success, right? It’s that, you know, they’re going to be this way and it’s going to, you’re going to have more time or you’re going to have success. And then there are some brands that maybe take more of that negative approach, which is the example I always use is the Mayhem commercials with Allstate.

You know, we’ve all watched some of those and, and they’re that, you know, they’re essentially developing the picture of the story of what could happen if you don’t have good insurance. And so they’ve taken more of that negative approach that in some ways kind of stares you a little bit, making sure, hey, do I have the right insurance that’s going to save the day if I need it to? So those are the seven different parts that kind of make up the framework. And we kind of dive into that with clients.

So, it sounds a little bit like Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey.


You’ve got the external enemy danger, and then you have the internal demons that the client is struggling with. And then there’s a guide, and then a call to action. It’s like Luke Skywalker gets the call from Princess Leia to go to Death Star and that sounds very similar to how you become the hero. So is it about you becoming the hero for your customer or is it how do you make the customer the hero in this journey? What is the approach?

Good question. It is all about the customer. So every brand that you buy from generally are the ones that are successful, understand the internal problem and people buy because of the internal problem. And so even a little hint for people that are listening to this, start writing copy in your emails or social copy, your website copy, whatever, about essentially positioning yourselves to solve the internal problem that people have of the external what’s going on because that’s always why people buy.

You can read a bunch of books about it, you can look at some of the different articles that are out there about why people buy and all those types of things. But generally, it’s all about positioning your service, your product, your brand to help solve people’s problems. So it’s all about creating a brand that’s all about the customer. Then you’re introducing yourself as the brand or the guide, if you will, that helps kind of lead them out of that problem that they’re having in kind of different key places throughout their branding, their messaging.

Yeah, they say that people buy based on emotion and justify the logic.

People buy based on emotion and justify the logic. Click To Tweet


That’s kind of creating this emotional framework that you can tap into their pain and guide them out of that pain into this brighter future wherever your brand can take the customer.

Totally. Yep, exactly. Oftentimes the best way to look at it is through car commercials and automobile commercials, because generally you’re looking for a new car or a used car too, a pre-owned car. You’re generally looking at it because I don’t have something right now, or it’s broken, or it’s in the shop, or I got an accident or something, and I need to know how to get from my house to work, or my apartment to the store, or you need it for a specific, you know, point A to point B, and you can probably solve that by spending a couple thousand dollars and buying a car that turns on and you get it started and it’s going to get from point A to point B.

But then some people spend a hundred plus thousand dollars on cars that basically functionally do the same thing, right? But yet the, all the different car companies, models of cars, all those types of things are really pinpointed towards the internal challenge or struggle that we have. I might want the really nice black Mercedes or BMW or Tesla or whatever it is specifically because I want to have a certain image that has that. That might be part of it.

I might justify it differently because it’s better for the environment or I get tax credit for it or whatever the thing is. But generally, if we’re all looking within, we’re probably buying that and then we’re interested in it rather and then justifying it based on other things, not necessarily our internal struggle or internal challenge.

That’s really cool. So it really struck me looking at your webpage, you talk about this idea of the ambitious brand. I mean, you say that these are the kind of brands you like to work with. So I mean, how do you feel an ambitious brand needs a different kind of marketing from maybe a conservative brand or a middle of the road brand? So how is an ambitious brand different? What do they need?

That’s a great question. It is a specific word that we chose on purpose. And there’s a lot of businesses out there, tons of businesses out there, local businesses, national businesses, big business, small business, medium-sized business. And many times what we’ve run into is, is that clients essentially are doing great. They’re doing fine with their local little niche they’ve carved out. They’re great growing kind of one, two, 3% a year. And it’s a lifestyle business in a lot of ways.

They’ve got a job, you know, really, and it’s not necessarily something they’re building to sell or, you know, building to have rapid growth or any of those types of things. We haven’t necessarily found a ton of success as an agency really saw or serving those types of businesses. Those sub two, sub $3 million businesses. A lot of it’s because they’re at their limit for what they can handle and they might not necessarily be super interested in growing a significant amount, which generally means they’re not willing to allocate any resources, whether it’s internal time to grow or external time to hire an agency or whatnot, to really kind of implement what’s needed to do that.

And so really what we’ve found is that oftentimes those ambitious businesses are willing to take some risks. They’re also willing to listen about what’s working for other businesses that’s helping those other businesses grow. Whereas in some of the smaller ones are kind of in there, it’s set in their ways and there’s nothing wrong with that at all. I have tons of friends that run those types of businesses and they’re incredible people.

Ambitious businesses are willing to take some risks. They're also willing to listen about what's working for other businesses that's helping those other businesses grow. Click To Tweet

They make a great living and those are all great, but they aren’t necessarily looking to grow from like a significant amount. And so usually the way that we describe what we’re doing is we really help companies with their strategy to get from where they’re at now, from where they’re at, where they want to go. And then it’s really a timing. It’s really how long is it gonna take to get there based on your current resources or your current kind of ability to deliver. Maybe that’s supply chain, maybe it’s internal resources, maybe it’s budget.

You know, there’s lots of different pieces to that. But then how can we be more of that kind of fuel that you pour on the fire to help that grow or help you achieve those goals faster? So more so looking at that ambitious kind of, I’m gonna call it a growth mindset versus a kind of static, I’m great, we’re on that type of a mindset.

So, the way I look at this is that, most every company I meet, they say they want to grow.


So. I think the difference is not about wanting to grow or not wanting to grow. I think it’s the question of being willing to pay the price of growth or not. Yeah. Because if it was super easy to grow, of course you want to grow. If it didn’t cause any growing pains to us and we didn’t have to take any risk, et cetera, then yes, you want to grow. But if we don’t want to do all those things and we don’t really want to grow, we just want to stay at the same place.

The model that you can compare it to is like weight loss or getting in shape or athletics. And generally to actually have like results when you’re trying to achieve a certain goal, personally or personal health, you probably have to work at it. Just trying to find that pill you take from the pharmacy that helps you just be able to run 20 miles, it’s not gonna work. People try to do it all the time, they want that silver bullet, but it’s gonna take work to be able to get to where you wanna go. And there really isn’t such thing as a silver bullet.

And then be willing to make the lifestyle change, so accepting that, okay, I’ve been living on 4,000 calories a day I’m gonna lose 50 pounds, I’m gonna have to accept that I will be living on 2,000 calories a day forever because my smaller body will require fewer, less energy.


And that’s the mindset that it’s hard to overcome. I think.

Yep, for sure.

Switching gears a little bit. So, okay, so you find this ambitious brand and they want to grow and they really are willing to get out of their way and endure the growing pains to get to the next level. What is the strategy? You talk about brand strategy and I’m just wondering, is brand strategy the same as marketing strategy or is it a slice of the latter or is it totally different, two different things? So what is the part of the marketing strategy which is not brand, is it execution strategy? So help me a little bit to that concept.

You know, in all honesty, it’s all connected. When we’re talking about small businesses, generally it’s a person, you know, it’s their network, it’s their person. I know, you know, I know Steve because he runs this business and that’s how I’ve, you know, I’m giving him my business because I know Steve and he’s built that relationship with me. It’s very difficult for many companies to get out of that growth, or to get into the growth mindset and really build a brand.

But reality is, is everybody has a brand. Steve, you have a brand, Tyler has a brand, everybody we talk to has a brand. It’s a way of communicating, it’s a lifestyle, it’s a way we look, it’s a way we talk, it’s the things we’re interested in. Those are all pieces of our own individual brands. And so really what we try to do from a brand strategy standpoint is really just understand, well, where are you right now? And where really more so, where do you wanna go from a brand strategy standpoint and working with companies to help them uncover that.

Cause some companies, even the 50 million, a hundred million dollar plus brands, they haven’t quite spent a ton of time into it. They’ve just landed on something where they’re able to generate a ton of revenue and they’ve got a certain kind of slice of it, but they don’t really even know how do you talk about their brand? What’s the language you use? What’s the voice that you use? What are some of the things that really help you accomplish some of those brand objectives? Because brand is going to feed into your marketing.

It’s really hard to kind of figure out without understanding who do you want to be positioned around from a brand standpoint. It’s hard to understand then who you’re going to market to. You need to know really more of that brand side of things before you can jump into the marketing side of things, before you can jump into the sales side of things. It kind of all works in a more of a cycle, if you will.

And so that brand strategy piece is where we’re really just trying to uncover some of those principles, specifically around how is it positioned, who’s your core audience, and then really coming up with that messaging that’s going to help them help appeal to that core audience. So then the marketing comes in, and that’s where you start to drive awareness, you start to amplify that message, start to get it in front of the right people, start to work on those conversion metrics. So, like I said earlier, is that circular type of process to where you’re constantly refining, but you got to start with that brand strategy set of things. Does that make sense?

So, what I’m hearing is that it’s basically and uncover what drives that brand or why the person, if it’s a small business, why do they like Tyler? And then how do you articulate it and perhaps institutionalize it, turn it into the company’s brand from that individual, if you want to scale that company, there’s an ambition to scale it. Or is this what this is to some extent?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, a lot of it is if someone’s contacting us to do some work, that means they want to grow. Generally, growth means new customers, new clients, new revenue. We have to start to uncover, well, what is it that’s made other people buy from you in the past, or what is it that you want people to buy from you in the past? Especially sometimes when we’re working with new products that are launching, new departments that are launching, new businesses that are launching, because they don’t quite know yet.

And so we’re really having to uncover from them, well, where do you want to be so that we can try to figure out how to get you in front of that audience or with that positioning? So yeah, a lot of it is that initial work, a lot of it’s research, a lot of it’s question asking. Generally, most of our clients, we start with a workshop and we’re really uncovering as fast as we can to get to the spot of where we understand your brand, understand what you want your brand to be, so that then we can start building and developing that out.

Oftentimes we look at it as two different phases. I hate using the word foundational because nobody really likes to pay for their foundation in their house. But at the same standpoint, their house is gonna crumble if they don’t have a foundation. And so you’ve got that foundational work, which is a lot of that brand strategy, that messaging, that positioning, and you’re kind of implementing that across all the different digital properties, physical assets, traditional marketing, whatever. And then you’re going to go phase two, which is going to be let’s pour some fuel in that fire. Let’s drive awareness, let’s amplify our message. You know, many of those types of functions or tactics or campaigns that would kind of come from that. So yeah, that’s a way to look at it, at least.

Do you find that small businesses are able to articulate the brand promise or brand promises from the outset, or is it a process to get to the point where they consistently can deliver something that then is worth articulating?

Most of them, to be honest, are able to articulate it pretty quickly. The issue generally that we run into is they can articulate what they think their brand is, but then they’re a little bit out of touch with maybe what their brand actually is or what their differentiators actually are. And so oftentimes we have to kind of uncover, many times all of the answers that we’re looking for are live within the sales team because they’re the ones on the front lines, they’re the ones that get the questions asked to them.

And so they can oftentimes know, hey, these are actually the challenges that people are running into that we’re buying this product or that product, versus if we’re talking to a director of marketing, or we’re talking to a CEO, even in some scenarios, they have an idea of what they want to be, but it’s not quite there yet. And so then we kind of are able to kind of figure out, well, okay, let’s uncover where you want to go with where you’re at today. And then let’s figure out how we can kind of close that gap and get you to where you want to go.

That’s fascinating. So Tyler, another thing that struck me reading through your materials is that you talk about developing a point of view for a brand. So I’m just wondering, what does that look like? How does the customers perceive my point of view as a brand? Do I have to be contrarian to be seen to have a point of view or it’s not necessary? So what is that point of view? What does it look like?

Yeah, it’s actually a really, I mean, many, many businesses are started with someone that has more of an engineer type of, if you’ve read Michael Gerber’s book, oftentimes it’s more that kind of tactical personality. I think his example is the person baking the pies, right? It’s the person that’s really doing a lot of that work. And rarely do they ever get themselves in the customer’s shoes. They don’t generally leave their kind of workshop or their shop where they’re making all the things happen to kind of go out in the public and go, well, how am I perceiving you? Kind of the difference between a grumpy personality or a kind personality.

Generally, people are attracted to a kind personality. And so everyone does have a brand point of view. Everyone has a brand that they would want to work with versus not, but oftentimes brands don’t pause long enough or really elevate themselves to kind of that 10,000 foot view to see their brand. And so that’s when we’re coming in and really asking a lot of questions to help them uncover, well, what are some of the attributes and what are the things that you want to be known for and positioned for.

And a lot, oftentimes those are feelings that you want people to have after they work with you. And that generally will then boil down into the people you might need to hire to run your customer service or the types of marketing campaigns or the way that, you know, your language of your brand comes off. You know, you don’t necessarily want to have a law firm that’s using emojis in their copy and all these funny statements and videos. Because oftentimes if I’m going to you for legal advice, it’s a little bit more of a serious topic.

So it doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be completely on the other end, but you do need to have an idea of what’s kind of like that feeling you want me to have after working with your brand. You know, is it really serious? Is it light and fluffy? Is it somewhere in between? And I’m using lots of different words that many companies, you know, will run through, many branding agencies like ourselves might run through and they’re going to give you a number of questions of what would you fit on this side or this side?

How would you rate this statement or that statement? And we do a lot of the same things, but I would say one of the things that we really key in on is how do you mix the problem that you solve as an agent or as a company or as a brand with that kind of feeling or attitude or kind of, I don’t know, brand, yeah, brand feeling that you want. I’m gonna call it feeling because oftentimes that’s something that we dig into is really what people want their brand to feel like to their customers. So, does that answer your question, Steve? I don’t know if.

It’s really interesting. I’m wondering whether this is something to do with the why of the company, with the purpose or the founder. You know, Jeff Bezos likes to talk about looking for missionaries as opposed to mercenaries. So you look for people who really are both into the bigger idea that drives the company. You know, Apple’s example is to build great products, you know, great products. And then kind of tapping into that visceral feeling of maybe the founder, maybe Susan, I don’t know her grandmothers or whoever gave her this feeling and she wanted to pass this along. that people emotionally relate to the company and then they see it more as a kindred spirit, so to say, as opposed to just a commercial establishment to which they want to relate through going to the pastry shop and buying the pie or taking whatever, using whatever service they provide.

It’s an interesting conversation because everybody’s going to have their own opinion of it, right? But I think you hit a little bit of it when you mentioned the Apple or Amazon or with Jeff Bezos kind of examples. If I look at the history of Apple and I look at when it was under Steve Jobs’ leadership, there was a lot of an entrepreneurial feeling when you entered that brand, whether it’s through a website or it’s through their events they would do or it’s through their stores. There’s a creative element to it. There’s a cutting edge element to it.

There’s a, we’re way out there and come, we’re gonna help you solve these problems. And you’re gonna want this because it’s really changing the culture. And it’s, you know, changing the way you look at certain different channels, whether it’s media or music or whatnot. But then if you fast forward to more recent years of Apple, it’s changed a lot. It’s a lot, it’s not nearly as entrepreneurial. It’s not nearly as cutting edge and, you know, pushing the envelope on different things. They are a huge gorilla, if you will, that’s very difficult to move in that direction. I would say they’ve lost some of those elements, and there are people that are catching them.

That is a feeling of a brand, and it’s changed because it was very much encapsulated, if you will, within that founder or within that person that was leading it, that really pushed heavily towards that certain direction or angle, I suppose, if you will, for that brand. But under the current leadership of Tim Cook, it’s different, and he has a different mindset. And he’s probably, I would assume, is constantly trying to figure out how to produce that innovation and produce that next level of cutting edge product and type of a thing.

But it might not necessarily be his brand necessarily. So those are connected to individuals that are part of those brand. And it’s not necessarily that they’ve lost it entirely, but it’s a different feeling to that brand. So then if you, let’s bring it to reality of many of us aren’t that multi-trillion dollar cap kind of a brand. And we’re a lot more of a trying to kind of figure it out now, well, there’s a significant difference between a lawn care service that shows up that kind of does a subpar job and leaves an invoice connected to my doorknob and I’ve never heard from them versus the person going a little bit overboard as far as their customer service and making sure it looked okay and following up with a text or a call or whatever it might be and asking how I want my invoice delivered.

Do you wanna pay on a credit card or check or do you wanna bank transfer or whatever the thing might be? There’s a difference, right? Between how the brands kind of come across. And so oftentimes there’s a lot of different activities that follow how you want your brand to come across. And you do have to be very intentional to how those certain things function.

If I cancel my lawn care service and I never hear from the people again, that’s a feeling that I’m left with and I probably won’t recommend them necessarily as highly versus if I cancel it and the owner of the company or the customer care team or whatnot follows up with me and goes, how was the service? Is there anything we can do to improve to earn your business back? Actually listens to it, actually implements it, and maybe makes that more product first type of a marketing or brand, and customer first type of an approach, I’m gonna probably recommend them. They’re gonna leave a good taste in my mouth after working with them.

And so those are the things that we’re really trying to uncover in that brand strategy process to understand how do we have marketing campaigns that do come across that way? Sometimes it’s videos of successful customers. Other times it’s videos that are, you know, screenshots of the product or walkthroughs of the product because that’s what people want. And they want a very, it’s a very technical audience versus a very feel or consumer product type of a product or, you know, or brand. So it really is trying to uncover all those feelings that you’re kind of looking for. So.

And I really like you refer to the differentiating activities.


There’s this Michael Porter idea that it’s not about being better, it’s about being different and how does your difference manifest itself? What do customers see as being the way you do business differently, like Chick-fil-A is closed on Sundays and by pleasure and eye contact and Spirit-looking bathrooms and all that stuff. Fascinating stuff. So, we are wrapping up soon. I want to ask you a quick question and then go to ask you where people can reach you. But before we go there, one thing you mentioned that I was really curious about, you said that it’s really important to methodically build the marketing program and this marketing muscle. So what does it look like methodically building that muscle, this marketing muscle?

So the brands that we’ve had success, there’s two different kinds of agencies. There’s two different kinds of marketing support and sales support and brand support. There’s one that is on the side of you contact me and you know exactly what you want. You just want hands and feet to do it. And then there’s the other side of you know where you want to go, but you don’t know how to get there. We fit on the, you don’t know where you go and you want to figure out how to get there. We fit on that side.

Generally, those are the longer term partnerships. We help them grow, we help them achieve or crush their goals. We’re going to work with them as if we kind of are part owner in that product or that can’t or that brand or whatnot, versus those kind of one-off, you know, hey, just I want to charge, I want you to charge me by the hour type of thing. So I’m just differentiating between those because there are two different types of agencies, two different types of marketing support type companies.

So ours is more on that kind of, how do you build like a structured campaign that’s gonna help you get to where you want? Because I think if you come to me and say, hey, I wanna grow my business and I go, well, great, what’s the size of your email database? And you say, well, it’s 10,000. Okay, awesome, we should just fire that 10,000 people with as many emails as you want per week and hopefully people will buy.

That’s fine, but that’s also just a tactic and you hope it wins and if it doesn’t, then you’ve burned your 10,000 people database that you probably earned some trust with. And so really trying to kind of figure out how to have that experience with a brand that you’re building and you’re inviting people into the story to help them solve those problems does require a little bit more upfront work from a strategic standpoint before you apply that muscle. You know.

That muscle- Design and build, so you design, you figure out what’s required, you design the process and then you build it and then you give them also, you know, the physical muscles to deliver the emails.


But it’s basically an end-to-end solution.

Yep, absolutely. I mean, it’s kind of back to that, like, you know, lose 50 pounds example or that health and wellness type example. It can’t be, every person’s a little bit different. Every person responds to physical stress a little bit differently. Some people cannot run a marathon. So if I just sit there and say, if you want to lose weight, you have to run a marathon. That’s going to work for a very select few. And that’s okay if that’s what your message is and that’s what you want to be known for.

And that’s your niche, if you will. But the reality is, is that you need to have a custom plan that works for you. It needs to be that athletic plan that’s nutrition that works for you, time of days that work out, different workouts that you maybe can do at home versus in a gym if you’re not near one or something. So it’s kind of more taking that approach and going, well, not every brand is the same, not every business is the same.

And so you can’t just take this cookie cutter approach and put it on top of it and hope it works. It can work. You know, some agencies do that well and they have a very hyper niche focus of who they want to serve. And people are, but that’s more on that side of people already know what they’re looking for. And they’re just trying to find someone that’ll do it for them versus where you’re on the other side where people know where they want to go.

A strategy firm, a strategy driven firm.

100%. Yep.

That’s awesome. So, Tyler, if someone would like to talk to you to figure out what their hero’s journey or their customer’s hero’s journey would be potentially and what is their brand and how do they get that feeling out to their audience? Where should they go and how can they find you?

So check out our website, lonefircreative.com and it’s fur as in F-I-R like the tree, lone as in single by itself, so lonefircreative.com. You can also shoot me an email, it’s Tyler@lonefircreative.com or check me out on LinkedIn, Tyler Pigott. So T-Y-L-E-R and then P as in Paul, I-G-O-T-T. And I’m generally pretty active on LinkedIn. And so happy to respond to stuff there and give you some ideas if that’s helpful. We can, you know, obviously talk further about anything that we’ve talked about on this podcast too. So, and welcome any questions. I like meeting new people.

Well, Tyler, thanks for coming on the show. It’s been exciting learning about the vision and the soul of the customer and the hero’s journey that you want to take your customer on. So thanks for that.


And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this, please don’t forget to rate and review the podcast so that we can get it out to more entrepreneurs. And stay tuned because next week I’ll have another exciting entrepreneur coming on the show.

Thanks Steve.


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