63: Build Your Own Success Blueprint with Marc Reklau

30
Aug

Marc Reklau is the founder of Maklau Publishing and author of 11 books, including the international bestsellers 30 DAYS and Love Yourself FIRST, which have sold over 600,000 copies worldwide. We talk about success habits, minimalism, and the benefits of practicing daily gratitude.

—

Listen to the podcast here

 

Build Your Own Success Blueprint with Marc Reklau

Our guest is Mark Reklau, the founder and managing director of Maklau Publishing. Mark is the bestselling author of 11 books that have been translated to 15 languages and have sold over 600,000 copies worldwide. He is an author, entrepreneur, if ever there was one, who actually makes his living by writing self-help books. And he lives in the sun in Malta. Mark, welcome to the show.

Hi, Steve. Thanks for having me.

Well, I’m very pumped to have you because you are kind of a very special type of entrepreneur, an artist who makes a living from their art, which I think is super cool. So I’d like us to dig into that and to see whether the audience members can emulate any of the stuff that you are doing. So, so let’s start with your, your background and your journey. How did you become an author entrepreneur? How does one do that? I mean, so many people would like to be able to do it. How, how does it actually happen in real life?

How does it happen in real life? It’s about how I’m asking myself that many times. It happens like everything, step by step. So I’m going back a little bit in my history. So all my education was normal education. I have a business administration. I studied business administration for five years, which I didn’t really like, but everybody studied it. Then I worked in a job for 10 years that I didn’t like. And then after 11 years, I was fired from that job. That was in 2013 and I had done a coaching training before. I read self-help books, personal development all my life since I’m 16.

So and you know sometimes in coaching we even get taught, we say you know, reframe. Everything happens for a reason and then when you and one of the reframes is being jobless or having the opportunity to think what do I really want in life. So I said okay I’m breaching that to my clients because I already have some clients so maybe I should apply it on myself. And then the first idea as an entrepreneur was building a coaching practice, life coaching business, coaches and go take it from there. I had two years because I got jobless money for two years and I had some money saved so I knew I have like two years to build something.

In coaching, we learn the art of reframing. Joblessness became an opportunity to ponder life's true desires. Click To Tweet

Usually they say two years is enough. It took a little longer but then I said and I thought I want to be a coach and have the coaching practice but then I also thought you know a book is fantastic to differentiate you from other coaches, from other, so after half a year, so the book was like, my first book was like in my head, growing, I just had to bring it to paper, so after half a year I said, okay, let’s write it, it’s the best time ever, I’m jobless, I have all the time in the world, so I lost my number one excuse, oh I would love to do it but I don’t have time, I didn’t have that excuse anymore, and I said, okay, money is coming in and the savings were still up.

So I said, okay, do it now, right? And then I wrote the book because it was something I always wanted to write. 30 Days is my first book and it is because I discovered that also in the coaching training that there are some exercises in personal development that if you really do them, they work. Only nobody does them, right? So in the time that I was jobless, I also didn’t have an excuse to not try those exercises, like writing down the goals, or being grateful, writing down three things you are grateful for every day, and all these things, or reading an hour every day in a new book, right?

So I did it, I wrote my book, I published my book, and as always, nothing happened. So for the first half year nothing happened and I was like oh oh okay let’s see but I kept on studying kept on persisting and then after half a year I got on a how do you say it a promotion on Amazon and then this took off my book took off so I got 40 000 downloads and those were free but the whole Amazon system was set up then that once the book was paid again I was up all high in the Amazon charts like with Tim Ferriss and all these, my idols actually and then suddenly I started selling books.

So that was the first time I could live from my books because I had small spendings and I was making money. And then it happened what always happens or shouldn’t happen but to me it happens. You get relaxed. You know, everybody tells you how to become successful, but very few people tell you once you are there, be careful.

How do you stay successful? How do you stay there?

Exactly to me, it happened. I got relaxed. I started lowering my guard. And then after a while, after a couple of years, the sales weren’t going so well anymore. And even if I was still thinking I’m a great best selling author who’s making tons of money, when I looked at my numbers, I got really, I mean, nervous, because numbers don’t lie. And suddenly I noticed that I wasn’t earning a lot of money that I was actually losing $1,000 a month. And that was the second time that was in 2018.

Then, when I was once again in the roller coaster of the entrepreneur and say, oh, now something has to happen and it better happens fast. I make it happen because if not, I’m going to have to look for a job. And I was always, you know, you mentioned it, I’m making most of my money with book royalties, which is something that doesn’t normally happen. Normally you have a book and then you make the money with the consulting and the speaking. It didn’t work for me. I tried it but it didn’t work for me so well.

And then my girlfriend, she’s a LinkedIn consultant and she asked me the question, it would also be the typical coach question, but she asked me because she was running my LinkedIn and for the post and she said, Mark, every post needs a reason. So what do you want to do? Do you want to get coaching clients? Do you want to get conferences? Do you want – what do you want? And I was blocked by this. So it took me – she had to ask me many times and maybe after four to six weeks, I said, okay, look, I’m going to tell you now. I want to – in my dream if you ask me, I would like to have all my income by book royalties. I don’t want to do a lot of coaching because it’s pretty exhausting.

I don’t like the conference. I mean, once I’m in the conference, it’s fantastic, but I’m also very nervous before going on stage. So if I can get around that feeling, that’s even better. So I said, I want to make it all with book royalties and let it make click in my head. So I said, okay, now I communicated it. It’s obviously a wish. So how do I do it? And then I did what probably we all do or we should do. I look for people who were living the life that I wanted to live. And it was writers, but they were fiction writers. They write novels, they wrote novels and thrillers and everything.

But it’s okay because they had, and now we come to the system, they had a system, they had a blueprint and if it’s a good blueprint, I can adapt it for me. And it’s exactly what I did. So I followed one British thriller writer which I knew. He made tons of money with his books. I said, okay, what is he doing? And I studied two more and I noticed they’re all doing the same thing. They have many books, not only one book or two books, they have like 30 books. They do a lot of free promotions because normally an author thinks, oh no, I can’t give my book away for free because yeah, it was such a lot of work.

But those guys, they have the formula studied so they know exactly the value of each of their readers. So they know, for example, every reader they have buys three or five books from them statistically. So they know they will make with every reader, let’s say $25. So then if you give away 5,000 books for free, when you come with this perspective, you don’t feel like you are losing money.

Successful writers understand the value of each reader. It's not about losing money by giving books away for free; it's about understanding the lifetime value of a customer. Click To Tweet

It’s a cost of the life and value of the customer.

Exactly. It’s when you go in the supermarket and they give you a sausage for free, right? And then you change the mindset and then suddenly it’s like, okay, that’s 5,000 new readers. And statistically, well, maybe every third of them will buy three or more books from you. That they did and then they spent a lot of money in advertising on Amazon, for example. And that’s also something, you know, there are always rumors in the business and so it’s very good. You know, it’s like, oh, he’s making $20,000 a month.

He’s making $25,000 a month. But then when you look behind the curtain, well, he’s also, he’s also spending $10,000 to make the $25,000, but it’s still, it’s $15,000 net, so that’s a CEO salary. I said, hey, if I ever get there, I am happy with it. So I started really doing it. I started applying it. I noticed I have to write more books because at that time I might have had four books or so. So in 2018 I wrote three books and then I translated it into Spanish so I had six books.

And since then I write like a couple of books per year and now I have like 44 products on Amazon. So that’s how you do as a writer. And it’s nice that you consider me an artist, I think I’m not an artist but I do entertainment, I write books that entertain you and hopefully help you and it’s all written on my experience so I’m practically, I’m experiencing stuff about productivity or self-esteem or minimalism and then I write it down to say okay look, if you want to give it a try, it worked for me. Maybe it will work for you too. And that’s the story, how I build up my business.

So it’s interesting that you don’t consider yourself an artist necessarily. I think a lot of the artists are like that. There is a song from Van Morrison that I really like when he, I think the title is, I’m a songwriter is the title. And then he says, you know, I can write it when I’m down. I can write whenever, you know, whatever happens, I can churn it out because I’m a professional. I can do this in my sleep. And then the checks is in the mail. And this is how I make a living. And I really like that because it shines a light on the life of the professional.

So to the outside world, it looks like an art, you know, you look at the basketball players, LeBron James, I mean, it’s amazing what he does. But he’s a professional. He just has his profession down at a very high level and he’s fully prepared. And he practiced a million times so that he doesn’t miss the shots. And he is pumped iron and he can basically power through to the basket. And that’s the life of an artist, you know, they go through this evolution. So I do think you are an artist but you’re also a professional. So what does it take to live the creative life? I mean you are living the creative life that is a dream for most of us, most of the rest of us, and what are any possible downsides to having the creative life?

I have to tell you I don’t see any downside. For me personally, the downside is always I have to always be careful to not lower my guard. Last year also I had two incredible sales months with sums that nobody in my family ever has had before. before and then I also noticed I was getting again relaxed not on top of my ads so because it’s really you know there’s also lots of people say oh passive income and everything is one one time set and it goes it’s not I’m doing my Amazon ads I’m doing them every day one or two hours and it and then last year I didn’t do it and I’m still paying for it because the profitability crashed and everything so it crashes quite easy you know it doesn’t take long to crash.

It’s like when you gain weight, right? You gain weight, it doesn’t take long, but to lose it again, that takes half a year or more. And with my profitability, it was like that. It crashed within a month or two, and then I needed to work hard to get it back. So that’s for me the only downside. Everything else is like fantastic. And I’m also a lot I’m thinking a lot to say what will I do when I am retired and for me personally it’s a fantastic question because I would say I say I probably would do everything the same you know why why should I stop writing two books a year and on the other hand when you turn it around I’m already pretty living the life of a retired person because well I have my own schedule I work a lot I work six to eight hours a day, but maybe I start at six.

Success isn't just about financial gains; it's about crafting a lifestyle that others aspire to when they envision their retirement. Click To Tweet

And then at 12 I’m finished and wander around on Malta. Or I remember I lived on a boat for a couple of years in Barcelona. And it was fun because I met there bank directors, IT CEOs and everything. And they were all telling me that once they retired, they were going to live like me. Then I did something right. Then I did something right.

That’s why they came to you to give them advice and not to another CEO right.

No, so downside, only discipline maybe. So you have to be very aware, also I think self-aware and also grateful. So I’m very grateful that I can live a life like that because once you’re not grateful anymore, it’s not special anymore. And this is something, those are the, let’s say, the values I hold myself to, to be grateful that I can have a life like this, to stay disciplined, to not relax, although it will always happen, but then get on track.

When I know it, I can react to it or also not lie to myself, because it happened to me, you know, when we look at the numbers, before, as I told you, I thought I was making a lot of money, but when I looked at the numbers suddenly it looked and so to hold myself accountable also and be honest to myself so those are the things I have to have but the lifestyle is fantastic and for me it’s a little bit sad that we are in the pandemic that’s very selfish to say but the thing is I want to see how would this life go when we’re not in a pandemic because when free travel again and everything so because when I became successful, two months after the pandemic hit. So, so my dream life is still traveling more, but I won’t complain. And I’m glad that thanks to also to this life. Yeah, I’m pretty independent.

So, Mark, it really struck a chord with me when you said that the way you became a writer who can make a living out of writing was you actually emulated other writers who were doing that and you studied their system and you figured out you just have to follow their blueprint. That was your very good, I love that. And obviously blueprint is one of my favorite words. But so tell me a little bit about this process of a lot of people have role models and say, wow, I’d like to live like this successful person. So how does one go about discovering that system and then applying it? Is there a method to it? How did you do it?

In my case, I just, I researched them. So of course you hear them, you know, everybody online is super successful and selling thousands of books. And then you have to go and research it. And I researched them. Are they really selling so many books as they are saying and then you can find it out with the Amazon bestseller lists and really like that. Not only are they number one in the category but are they high in the whole of Amazon. And then I bought the courses.

I bought the courses of three guys because in the courses they always give a little more and then for me it was enough and then the rest was really me when I synthesized out what it is. It’s more books, more promotions and advertising. Then I concentrated on learning advertising and that was it. And I could see in advertising pretty quickly that it was so that I was making more money. And then I started relation quite quickly. So the more ads I made, the more money I was making it was. And then that’s what I did for one and a half years, Steve. So for one and a half years, I was just doing ads and more ads.

And that’s something I saw it yesterday because it’s interesting. Because now I can say, look, because usually when I’m an interview, I’m like, yeah, well, ads, I multiplied my sales by 20. Great, sounds great, you know, and then everybody can think, oh, yeah, with ads in one month and two months I can. And then I saw the life chart of my ads. And then I saw a line which was like this, and then it went like this. And you know when it went like this, after 16 months, I had forgotten that.

So I was doubling, tripling my sales, but the big sales came after 16 months. So that’s and I’m sure you see that too in all the processes you do. So that’s I think the most important thing to stay with it. And it’s a process and the process can be and really I was baffled when I saw 16 months I was like what was what was driving me to keep doing this for for 16 months and I’m not only talking to you the three years before when I was not making that much money as a writer when I was even a struggling writer right so that so all in all when I look back it was like five tough really tough years.

And when I look back I said how did I do it and sometimes when I post on LinkedIn or something I said I only say to the people like would you have had the patience would you have to have the patience to see this line that is going nearly parallel for 16 months and then it jumps. But who has the patience to stay there 16 months? Or when I, as a writer, when I was not making so much money during four years, would you have stayed the fifth year and then it took off? And it’s fantastic. I’m sure you see it often and I see it really also everywhere.

So the thing, it’s always stay with it. Do you have the patience? Do you have the persistence? And then we are again with the basketball players. LeBron, he’s probably training six hours since he’s six years old. Or Michael Jordan, who didn’t make his high school team and then got up every morning at 6 a.m. to practice. So we see the result. When you study somebody, you see just the result. And that’s what’s happening to me now.

Many people say, oh Mark, wow, great, what do I have to do? I want to have the lab like you. And I say, well, probably, I mean, I took five years, but probably in two years you can do it. You have to write many books, maybe three a year, and you have to learn ads. And then maybe in two or three years you can reach the level. And then they’re not interested anymore.

They just want the result. They don’t want the work that it requires. Yes. And they say that a lot of people want to be a best-selling author, but not all people want to write a best-selling book.

Exactly. That’s also something I see. So everybody wants to be a best-selling author, but you can become one and you can sell many books if you do ads, but then they say, okay, but I want the book. I want to write a ghost writer to write the book and somebody else to make my ads, but I become rich and famous. And it doesn’t work like this because nobody will write the book like you. So it will always, even great ghost writers, and they can write a great book, but you, if you put your touch on it, it will be different. The reader notices it.

And with the ads, it’s the same. We all say, we who are making money with ads and money with books, we all say, look, nobody ever will make your ads like you because it’s just we know it. When I make a mistake with my money, it hurts. I will never make the mistake again. But if somebody makes a mistake with my money, they don’t care, you know,

So it’s the entrepreneurial energy is not in there when someone else does it. And that’s always the thing that how do you transfer the entrepreneurial energy into other people so that they can get an equally good result and I don’t know. It’s very rarely happens. You need you need someone to keep infusing that energy and sometimes you can build a culture that Perpetuates that but it’s it is it is very rare.

It’s difficult. I will never be like you, you know, so I don’t have employees so thank God because So I’m the only one I’m accountable to. I work with freelancers, but it’s also not, they’re doing my covers or whatever. So it’s not the world of my company, right? But you have 10 employees, even the best will never be like you. They might be just like you, but never like you. So I have the luck in quotes that I decide. My business, for some, it might be a disadvantage because I probably can’t scale a lot. You know, I can only scale and how much money I give to ads and how much comes out, but I also don’t need a million dollar company.

You can scale by writing a Harry Potter equivalent that has such They say that if you make a dollar on every customer and you have a billion customers, then you can become a billionaire.

Exactly.

So I want to switch gears here and talk about a couple of concepts that you came up in our pre-interview. One was minimalism. And you said that you’re passionate about minimalism. You are writing a book about it, right?

Yeah.

So, what does minimalism mean and what are the benefits of minimalism?

Once again, I can only tell you about me because that’s something, so the habits and everything I write to, they might work for everybody, but everybody might have different results. And for me, minimalism is fantastic because I always felt well with the less stuff I had. So I came to Barcelona 18 years ago with one bag. It was fantastic. And then in my time in Barcelona I accumulated a lot of things and suddenly for my third move I already needed a little bus and make three trips to move the stuff. Then I got divorced so half of the stuff was gone.

And then I moved from a house to a boat, because I always wanted to live on a boat. And it was also like to get rid of more stuff, because usually when you move, you get rid of stuff that you don’t need, but it’s always there, right? So then I moved on the boat and I already had less stuff. And then my last move to Malta, I made with the airplane. So I said, okay, I will throw, but again, because I could send it all to Malta, but I don’t want stuff.

So I said, okay, I will be once again in the situation where I have to throw stuff out and I moved at the end to Malta with one big suitcase and with one small suitcase. One small suitcase is still in my girlfriend’s house but so I know all my belongings are in two big suitcases and to me this gives a very good feeling. I have also no property. I rent furnished apartments so that takes a lot of the stuff off and then I come with my two suitcases I go in there I can live there one year five years and when the time is over I take my two suitcases and leave again.

So for me what has brought clarity probably is the most clarity so there’s not a lot of clutter because even if you know notice it or not the more clutter the less clarity and then what I told you in the pre-interview was also what was for me mind-boggling is because and I do the Marie Kondo style uncluttering so I start with clothes and then you go to books and videos and then at the end you come to the emotionally you come to the stuff you are emotionally attached to like photos gifts and stuff but also on the way of uncluttering because unglittering because you have made thousands of decisions, you become very good in decision making.

And then in my case, that led to more because then it led into my business and I had three collaborations which really took a lot of energy from me because or there was always complaints or the money never came in time whenever they had to pay, there was another excuse, you know, the best excuse and I’m very direct. So once a guy says, yeah, well, my partner is now in South America and I don’t have the bank number to make that. And I yelled at him. I said, look, if your partner is in South America, she’s in South America with my money, so you better get it to me.

Sometimes, letting go of toxicity opens doors to unforeseen growth. Click To Tweet

So and it was just too much. And then those three collaborations make 25% of my income. And I decided to let them all go and just say, okay, let’s do it. Toxic relations out and I said, oh, Mark, so I was aware that you might lose 25% of revenue this year, but well, you know, you have to, probably you have to save a little bit on other stuff. And then I just did the year and at the end of the year, I made 10% more.

Yeah, because you release a lot of energy, there’s a lot of energy which goes into this toxic phase. Release it and you can put it in the focus area which is more valuable, that’s where you’re the best at.

That’s it,

And it makes a huge difference, it also makes you feel better. I’ve been to this situation as well and it’s hard to let go of something but then it’s a liberating feeling.

It’s incredible. Yeah. And it’s also, you know, it’s a process and it’s really the same thing is. So I started also, you know, tensing it, like making better payment conditions for me to say 50% in advance or now it’s everything in advance because it’s like, yeah, if you can do it, it’s great. And if not, not a problem for me, I prefer not to do it than to run behind my money. For me, that has really left me like it’s one of the most disagreeable things. I just don’t like it.

Yeah, and it’s fun because with other entrepreneurs when I talk about it, I say, yeah, Mark, okay, for you, it’s easy because, you know, you have a lot of money and royalties coming in and everything. I said, no, no, but it was not that way. I had to, I did first, I had to show the courage to put this payment condition and then the money came because I think when you are having, you are communicating something to the universe or even subconsciously to your business part and say look it’s okay.

I can afford it. I’m that good that you have, if you want my services you have to pay up from. No apologies.

Yeah and for me it’s fantastic because it’s like another thing that when you I was reminded of it when you say when you talk about the liberation about this free because then there are no problems anymore. And sometimes I even so, because I also, I want to give good service so now I’m doing a translation of a book and I told him okay give me 50% in advance, because I know the other 50% will also motivate me to work faster and get a better delivery date so I’m that fair you know I said, because I don’t want everything in advance and don’t give anything back. No, no, you get the service. And when it’s like a translation, it’s even 50% is okay for me because that will push me to work better. And harder. Yeah.

Okay. So that’s great. So another topic I wanted to bring up before our time is up is the idea of the success habits. So you talked about that last time as well. So how does one acquire success habits and how do you know what they are and how do you go about that?

Yeah, so that came out when I studied. I studied a lot of successful people, you know, and then suddenly I noticed a pattern. They were all doing the same stuff, you know, they were like saying no a lot, for example, or getting up very early most of them or very grateful so many of them practice gratitude. So I saw of all these successful people a pattern of habits that they were doing and then it’s the same thing that you just start doing it you know and then with habits is the thing because the experts are discussing is it 21 days, 30 days, 66 days, 180 days, it doesn’t matter.

So I think they would agree on 66 days, but at the end it doesn’t matter because you’re doing it until you have it and then you keep doing it. It’s not like I’m doing it for 30 days and I have to have it and then I don’t. And I really noticed, of course I noticed it in myself, how these habits brought me to success and you can find them in any book about habits or when you even if you read biographies of Successful people you will see the same things So and then you choose the ones I always tell people because I wrote now lots of habit books and lots of habits in 30 days There are 94 habits.

So people say oh when do I have to do all the 94 habits? I said no you take the ones that come easiest for you, you start small because it will give you also confidence and then you just go and I’m not doing the 94 habits all but I always do some of them, you know, I’m always having at least 5 or 10 habits that I’m continuously doing. Then there are some habits that are just so easy peasy it’s common sense like watch less TV or read an hour a day and you find time for it and that’s it. And then the only thing that matters is, and we come back to what I told you before, then the only, how is your persistence, are you patient enough to keep going?

At the end is it, I think, because many times people ask me what was the most important habit? And I think it’s not one, but persistence is one of the top habits because you have to persist. Believe in yourself is another one because if you don’t believe in yourself, nobody will believe in yourself. Then what I, one of my favorite habits and I think it’s the most impactful and the easiest is the practice of gratitude. So I write down three things every day that I’m grateful for.

For me it’s more than three because when you practice it a while, first it might be difficult to find three, after two or three weeks you will find 10. You know, I am for my mother, grateful for my girlfriend, grateful for to have a roof over myself, grateful for how life is going, grateful for my computer so I can… So look, we have already four things and then you have to feel also this gratitude. So when I do this practice, I actually get nearly goosebumps because it makes me so happy and grateful for that.

And if you do that for two, three weeks, things will change because you are reprogramming your mind, that’s scientifically proven, because you put the focus, your focus is on everything that you can be grateful for, so that means you will see more of it all the time and scientifically proven benefits are you become happier, more optimistic, you see more opportunities which for entrepreneurs is always good because we cannot take every opportunity, but the more there are, the better the chances that we will take time.

The good one. Yeah. I mean, success begets success. And if you program yourself that you already are successful because you have so many things to be grateful for, then that’s going to start the flywheel going. So I totally agree with that. So listen, our time is coming to an end here, but so the listeners, they would like to get their teeth into some of the stuff that you teach about your success habits. Minimalism is not out yet, but if they start reading other books, they are going to get the notice of that as well. So where should they start? What is the book that you recommend for entrepreneur, listener to start with? And can they connect with you personally as well?

So the book to start I think is 30 days. 30 days because 30 days is a very generic book. It’s like the habits. I think everybody will find something for it and based on that book then I did like spin-offs that’s how you say it. You do the spin-off right and you do then I have one book about how to become a people magnet, which is more a book about how to treat people. That would be a great book for sales people, I think. Although there will be nothing new for them. That’s also something of my books is really, I don’t know if you will find anything new because I don’t think we have to reinvent the wheel.

And my experience in the writing was really do the freaking exercises and your life will change because I think we all read a lot and it’s great to read but when you start doing the exercises that’s when the life will change and that’s my focus but so yeah start with 30 days and then just move along what I have one about productivity tool you will notice and for me where can people find me I’m lucky there’s only one mark rec law in the world one mark rec law with a C there’s another one with a K but Google has already buried him, the poor guy, under me.

And yeah, in Google you put my name, everything comes up. I’m not sure on many social media anymore so I’m on LinkedIn and Instagram but I think I will also leave Instagram soon because I left Twitter and Facebook in January and I’m happier than ever and I have too much time now. So I left there because it’s a time robber and now I’m bored because I don’t know how, so I probably can write and read more books. Exactly. So LinkedIn I am and then email, I answer all my emails, mark at markreglaud.com. There’s also my webpage, I have a webpage which is markreglaud.com and another one which is Good Habits Academy and then Amazon. I mean my books are on Amazon and when you put my name there, lots of stuff comes up.

Okay, awesome. Well, Mark Reklau, author, entrepreneur, the author of 11 books, 600,000 copies and counting. Great to have come to the show. Really enjoyed the conversation. And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this conversation, then please don’t forget to go on Apple Podcast and rate and review us so that we can get out to more, even more listeners. You can also please follow us on YouTube, whatever, subscribe and stay tuned because next week I’ll have another exciting entrepreneur come on the show. So Mark, once again, thank you.

Thank you, Steve. I could have gone on for an hour but we keep it short. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure.

 

 

Important Links:

This entry was posted in . Bookmark the permalink.