230: How to Build a Talent Pipeline with Matt Verlaque

04
Aug

Matt Verlaque, COO of SaaS Academy, is driven by his passion for service and helping entrepreneurs succeed. “Build a Talent Pipeline” is central to Matt’s approach as he aids 5,000 B2B SaaS founders in achieving their goals.

We explore his journey from fireman to software entrepreneur and now COO, where he aids 5,000 B2B SaaS founders in achieving their goals. He shares his Talent Pipeline Process, treating talent acquisition like a sales process. His framework includes generating demand to attract top talent, using a one-minute video filter to assess candidates, conducting quick screening interviews and assessments, and assigning a paid test project to evaluate practical skills.

He also introduces his upcoming book, “Software as a Science,” which reveals growth strategies for SaaS companies and provides actionable frameworks to overcome revenue plateaus. The book shares SaaS Academy’s proven playbooks, helping founders solve their growth challenges with a scientific approach.

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Listen to the podcast here

 

Build a Talent Pipeline with Matt Verlaque

Good day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Matt Verlaque, the COO of the SaaS Academy with a mission to help 5,000 B2B SaaS founders, software as a service founders, grow their business beyond what they thought possible. Matt, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Steve. Awesome to be here, man.

Well, very exciting that we are talking about this. I’m recently been very curious about SaaS and trying to build my own SaaS business as well. But let’s start with your personal why. What is your personal why and how is the business connected to it, if at all?

It’s a great place to start. My why is always service oriented. I started my career in the fire department. I was a career fireman for 10 years and accidentally started a software company and I just kind of did it on the side until it turned into a real business. And I had to make a choice and go full time. And that’s when I really started to learn and develop and figure out what it was all about and ran that company through its acquisition in 2020. But the why for me is I just feel driven to help other entrepreneurs create the lives that they deserve and that I know that they’re capable of. And for me, receiving business coaching, because I was a client in SaaS Academy with my first company long before I became Dan’s partner and running the business, is I just didn’t know what I didn’t know. And I had a ton of drive and a ton of motivation, and I really wanted to generate a beautiful outcome for my family and for my team and my co-founders and all that kind of stuff. But I didn’t really know how to get the flywheel turning and how to get the company growing and just the right way to do things. And so I received a lot of help along the way from Dan as my coach and from the other coaches inside of the academy. And it’s a gift to be able to help build the machine that’s going to provide that for hundreds and thousands of other founders. Because there’s just, I think there’s a lot of talent out there and there’s a lot of motivation out there and building a software company is, I think, 10% art and 90% science. And so, you know, I can find the people who have the vision about the product and teach them the 90% that’s science, that’s repeatable, that it’s the same over and over again and help them de-risk the growth that they’re trying to achieve and hit the outcomes they’re trying to get. I mean, what a beautiful way to spend a life. So that’s really what it’s about for me.

Yeah, I love this science angle. And you’re going to talk about your new book, Science as a Service. I haven’t mentioned it yet, but that is really exciting that you say that it’s 90% science. So, okay, so we’ll talk about this, but before we get there, I’d like to ask you about a framework, because this podcast is all about frameworks and you developed a talent pipeline process framework, and you mentioned talent, actually, as one of your drivers to have this talent to self-actualize with the size businesses, but you have to also attract the talent. So what is your talent pipeline process and how do you attract the talent?

Yeah, I mean, I think that first off, like the why behind the framework is, I think there’s a lot of people who initially will start off and say, I want to run a business and have the minimum number of teammates possible and keep it super small and super lean. You can definitely do that and create a really beautiful company that serves a whole lot of people. But at some point, if you want to hit a certain level of scale with your business, the scope of your goals is going to just physically exceed what you and a couple of co-founders are able to achieve. And at that point, once you cross that precipice of scale, the only real lever you have to grow at the rate you want to grow is people. Like people is the whole game that we’re playing. And so when I really thought about that and internalized it, I realized that if I can just get good at acquiring talent, talent acquisition and talent retention, we’ll talk about the acquisition side as part of this framework, if I can get really good at that, I can probably find the right person and bring them into my world that can solve any of my other problems. So if you can plug in and reliably recruit A players, you have no other problems, because you can find someone to help you go solve them. So that’s the why behind it. And I think the biggest realization in the framework for anybody listening to this is that talent acquisition is a sales process. That’s the first thing. Because you talk about a sales funnel, everyone knows exactly what you’re talking about. I got leads, I’ll do a demo, do some follow-up, close a deal, hooray, got a customer. Like it’s as old as time. And then you talk about talent acquisition and people are doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Some people are on one end of the spectrum and they’ll just talk to someone for 15 minutes and hire them. And if it doesn’t work out, then I’ll go do that again. And other people on the other end of the spectrum, I’m going to give you 15 different interviews and make you fly here and do this project and write this code. And like, there is a happy middle. There’s, in my opinion, a right way to do this that lets you hold a very, very high quality bar, but also lets you move through the sales process, the talent acquisition process with an appropriate velocity where you can actually get the hiring done. So that’s kind of the mindset or the methodology behind it. And so the way I visualize this is as a funnel, just like a sales funnel, and I’m just going to call out a couple of key points. I’ll walk through the steps in the process, but I’m only going to really focus in or double click on a couple of them because the ones that I consider to be different than what most people do.

Before you jump in, I just want to reflect on this idea of it’s like a sales process. So what I like to tell my clients is that hiring is a new sales.

Yes.

Actually finding the right talent and attracting them to your business, it’s really hard work because there’s a lot of competition. Unemployment is all the time low. There’s a lot of good companies out there. And it’s much, it’s even harder now to do that than to find customers. If you’ve got a good product, you’ve got a good team, you’re gonna find customers. But to find good teammates and sell them on the idea that your business is gonna be a great career for them, takes some heavy lifting. So back to you.

No, no, I agree. And it’s interesting because I think in the mind of a founder or a CEO, especially one who may not have worked with A-plus talent in their time here. People sometimes shy away from hiring and recruiting because it feels like a lot of work and then you’ve got this administrative overhead and management overhead. I got to tell everyone what to do and all this stuff and like the big idea here if someone’s listening to what I just said they’re like yeah I feel like that it’s just a lot of work to manage all these people.

When you hire A- plus talent they pay for themselves and things get easier, not harder. Share on X

So if those two things aren’t true, you likely haven’t yet achieved the level of talent on your team that you should be striving for. And it takes time, right? I mean, you cannot, every business is, candidly, like not every business is worthy of A plus talent that’s gonna walk in and start flipping your whole situation upside down. But like those people are out there and that is what we should strive to achieve as founders, is getting a team full of those people. Where you as a CEO, you’re like, oh my God, I’m so happy these guys let me keep showing up. You know, the bar should just always be getting higher.

Yeah, I got it.

Yeah. So the process itself, I think when you use the metaphor of a sales process, right. And we’re trying to get customers. The first thing we need to do is demand generation. But when you’re trying to get applicants, the other thing you need to do is demand generation. It’s again, the same type of rhythm because the reality is this, Steve, like you can’t hold a really, really high quality bar if you’re getting 15 applications for a vacancy. You’re going to feel like you’re picking at scraps or I have to hire this person because I don’t have anyone else to look at. So the first problem you have is a top of funnel problem. And it’s not super difficult to solve. A lot of the job boards have paid placements. For some reason, I find a lot of founders are very hesitant to put some money behind their job placements. Hiring people is a bigger leverage point than finding customers. So put some money behind it, like get the preferred placement, get the feature, be at the top of the list, be on page one, like oh my gosh, it is so worth it for the right hire. So that’s part of it, but then like you get the click, you get the attention, and that’s when the top talent is evaluating you. Like the big idea here is that you have to understand top talent is silently interviewing your company based on your presence on the internet long before you earn the right to interview them. And if people need to, like, people need to think about it that way. And so I point a lot of people towards doing a few audits of their process. Like what does the jobs page look like? Does it look like every other page? Or are you actually selling the culture and selling the mission of the company and showing videos of your team hanging out together and like why is your place a cool place to be? You don’t have an answer, should make your place a cool place to be. You should have an answer for that as a leader.

We've got to build the culture that we want to indoctrinate people into. Share on X

And so, it’s all couched under this term of employer brand. So like do a search for your company. What are the reviews say about your product? What do they say about your culture? Are you on indeed or G2 crowd for the product or a glass door for the business? Like what are people saying about you? Because the top talent, they’re silently interviewing you before they even apply. And if you fail that silent interview, you don’t even know. So like put yourself in that shoes of like, why is my company worthy of an A-plus player to come to and get all those boxes checked off first. And then you’ll probably feel more confident putting money into your job placements to promote them because better talent will be more likely to apply. So the first part is like solving for demand generation.

So, okay, so demand generation, and then how do you actually get them to interview you? Is it about the ad or you mentioned the one minute video you can shoot? So what’s the next step?

Yeah, so for getting them to apply, the jobs page itself and the application, like the application is to be written like a sales letter, right? So if it’s just, I require three years of .NET experience, blah, blah, like, oh my God, snooze. You’ve got to be really selling the mission of the role and who you’ll be reporting to and all the intangibles that people look for. You build a job post that’s worthy of the application. You’re going to get, if you’re doing all these things right, you’re going to create the next problem which is you’re going to get crushed with applications and 90% of them probably aren’t going to be the A players you’re looking for. So you mentioned the one minute video. This is my favorite first filter tool. So in every job application, we do this from directors and VPs all the way down to the most junior individual contributors. Part of the initial application is, please record a one minute video that answers two things. Why are you a great fit for this role? And what’s your favorite nonfiction book? And those two questions are chosen on purpose. There’s actually three questions in there. Can you answer the two? And can you do it in one minute? Because you’d be amazed the number of like seven minute diatribes that we get on some of these videos. And the nonfiction book is important to us personally because it’s a core value of ours of constant personal development. Like everyone on our team is a reader, right? They’re taking courses, they’re reading books. We have an unlimited book budget for our team as a benefit. You know, like it’s part of our culture. So we want to make sure that that doesn’t scare anybody off. We have the one-minute video as our first filter in the application. We also put a video of our own on the application page called How to Crush Your One-Minute Video for SaaS Academy. And it’s us talking about how to shoot a good video and how we use it and why. Again, you have to sell the ask, right? We tell them why they’re doing the thing that they’re doing for us. And our stats, about 21% of people will submit the video on the initial application. Those people go right to the top of the stack and it’s a really beautiful first filter. So that’s how we do the video filter.

Love it. Love it. Okay. So let’s say they were attracted by your job ad, premium placement, really reflecting well on the values of the company, the mission. It’s attractive. So they take the time, they record their one minute video, you get 30% conversion, whatever. What’s next?

So we do a quick 15 minute screening call with our people team. Not going to spend too much time there. It’s a very quick, like, can they show up to the call, have a quick conversation, talk about the resume, like just regular what you would expect. But the next part that I think is different than what most people do is we actually do a behavioral and cognitive assessment before they get interviewed with their hiring manager, right? So let’s say we’re hiring someone for the marketing team before they interview with our director of marketing, we put this as assessment together. The way to think about it is this, the time and bandwidth from a hiring manager in your company is precious, right? I don’t want our hiring managers doing 50 interviews to fill a role. So we have a person on our people team who does the initial screen, and then we only take the people who we think are the best and forward them to the hiring manager. So like the ratio of interviews to making the hire for a hiring manager is an important metric for us. We try to keep that as low as possible. And so what we do, we use a software called Predictive Index. There’s a bunch out there, but PI is the one that we use. And we’ll actually build a behavioral profile for every role that we open based on like what personality traits and predispositions would be most useful. And they help with that. They consult on that process. And then every applicant goes through, and it takes like 10 minutes. It’s super fast. They go through a quick behavioral assessment and cognitive assessment, and that gets added to their dossier, essentially. And so by the time they get to a hiring manager, we’ve done an assessment of their work experience. They’ve done a 15-minute screening call. We’ve got their one-minute video, their behavioral assessment, and their cognitive assessment. We put that all in a Slack post and all in a single one-pager, and that’s what goes to the hiring manager so they can get spun up very, very quickly when they do the actual interview. So that comes before the interview.

Nice, nice. So they interview and then that’s it?

Then they get to what I think is the most important part of the whole process. I think Seth Godin was one of the first to say this. He said, his principle is I can’t work with you till I work with you, which I love and I’ll tell you, I’ve made a lot of hires over the years and especially in my earlier days, like in my first company, I never did this until we learned how to do it. And it’s wild, the disparity in both directions between how somebody interviews and how they work. And it actually, if you don’t vet, and I’ll get into what the test project is in a minute, but if you don’t vet for how someone actually works in something that’s representative of what their actual role will be, two things can happen. You can have someone who interviews really, really well, but their work’s not as good. That’s the one everybody worries about. But the one I worry about more, candidly, is someone who might not interview that well, but they’re actually a weapon in their role. And because they didn’t interview well and you didn’t have a mechanism to actually evaluate their work, you actually missed out, potentially, on somebody who’s an incredible asset to your company because they might not have been able to be as good as someone else at a conversation, which is the bigger hiring crime, is missing out on talent. It’s what you never want to do so.

So, do they do that even after they had, so after they had the manager interview, do this test project. So even if they didn’t do well on the interview, you would have them do the test project.

It’s up to the hiring manager’s discretion, right? So the thing that I, the kind of the core principle for me here is that I don’t want a hiring manager making a hiring decision just off of the interview. Right. And so what I’ve found when we look at how the humans are behaving in the environment is that even if someone, like, yes, if someone bobs their interview, they probably will not move forward. But if someone is like marginal, they’re on the edge, and should we move them forward or not? What I’ve found is that the hiring managers, because they know there’s another opportunity to more directly vet their work abilities, they’ll default to moving them into the test project to give them a chance at outshining their interview, which I find is a really helpful thing. Because we’ll stack rank at every stage of the process. It’d be like, oh, Steve’s my number two, but I think Jimmy’s number one. And then we do the test project and the hiring manager comes back and like, actually, Steve crushed this thing. Like, Steve is absolutely more competent in this role than Jimmy and we should hire Steve. So I see it happen pretty frequently. So what we do for the test projects is this. It’s in two phases. We only do one. I just, I get a lot of Harper and all these companies that are like, give them, you know, five different projects. We do one project, we time cap it at 10 hours and we pay people a pre agreed upon hourly rate for it. Even if we don’t hire them, right? I just, I don’t like free lunches. And I value people’s time. So we just back into the hourly rate. I’m like, look, if you want to participate in this, that’s cool. We’ll pay you either way, whether it works out or not, it’s all good. And so we put together a project. We don’t give them real work, right? Like if we’re hiring a graphic designer, we’re not going to be like, hey, go design the social media post and then they don’t get hired and they see it on the freaking internet in a week. Like that’s kind of gross, right? But we’ll put together a very accurate simulation of what the work would be like. We put it together in a document, they take it away, they can ask us questions, they go do the project and then they submit the project to us. So that’s phase one. And then unless the project is a disaster, they move on to phase two, which is they actually come back on and present their work to us. And that’s really important. We don’t do that so they can like read us the stuff. Like we just read it beforehand. It’s more of a Q&A session. So they’ll hit the high points. But then I want to like get into their heads. I want to see how they think about the work, how they approach the work. I asked them, what was your favorite part of this project and which part didn’t you like? You know, a lot of like behind the scenes questions about what went through their heads while they were doing the project. And we worked through that. And then, so from there, then we’ll do like a fit call with our CEO and that’s the last step. But the test project is something that is mandatory, never skipped, never optional. And our goal with our people team is to get three highly qualified viable candidates through the test project process. So that way, if we lose one on like a salary negotiation, like another offer or something like that, we’re not back at the top of the funnel, back at square one. So that’s what we do. That’s a test project.

Wow, that is very, very intriguing, very involved. So in order to get three people through the test project and you only get 20% of the applicants to record the video, then the screening is gonna get some people out, maybe another 30% is going to be screened out and then the test project. So you need what? You need at least 50 or 100 applicants for that three people to make it, wouldn’t you?

Yeah, but honestly, if you’re doing your top of funnel right, you’ll get 10 times that. And then you let the filters do their jobs. And that’s why I led the conversation with the top of funnel, because technically when you talk about the framework, you just say, oh, put a video in. And then what I find is without the context, knowing that you need to invest in the top of the funnel, people install the video filter into their process. And they’re like, I got 20 applicants, which used to be good. And none of them submitted the video. And now what the hell do I do? Right. And it kind of puts the brakes on. So, I mean, Steve, we get like probably between 1200 and 2000 applications for every role within the first five business days that it’s posted. You know, that gets whittled down by 80% or so just on the video filter. But from there, we don’t really set like stage by stage criteria. If I need to have, you know, a hundred people at this stage and 50 at that stage, we go in like a just in time planning manner, right? So, ideally, what we’re looking for is to get about a half a dozen highly qualified candidates to the hiring manager interview stage as quickly as possible. And so we’ll do that, we’ll get the first half a dozen, we figure we’re banking on that hiring manager picking her top three or four and moving them on to the test project, and then we see where it goes from there. And then as the test projects start to come in, if none of them are looking good enough, we’ll go grab another batch and pull them down. So there is a bit of an advantage of applying to a job that was recently posted because, you know, as long as you clear the hurdles and the benchmarks, you’ll get done quickly. Because we put a lot of emphasis on our time to fill a role. Right now it’s under 40 days from the day that we post until the agreement is signed. We always want to keep it there because it took me a long time to realize this, Steve. For the founders out there, if you’re nervous about upgrading someone in a role or filling a role or holding a standard and you’re trying to hold a standard in your business, but you’re like, oh, what if they leave? The reason that you have that anxiety is because you’re not confident in your ability to rapidly hire somebody who’s incredible. And that is the biggest idea of them all is that getting good at this and having a high degree of confidence that I can go find somebody awesome for whatever job that I post in under X number of days, for instance, under 40 days, it lets us unapologetically hold a quality standard for our work because I know I can find someone if I need to. I’m not gonna be-

But I think there is even another, maybe even bigger reason for making it fast is because the good people are not gonna be waiting around forever. And they may just be unhappy for a short period of time and something may change. They might even just consider leaving their job because something upset them.

Exactly.

And then things goes away and then they’re no longer in the market. So you wanna get them while they are hot, good ones. Okay, so that’s great. So generate demand, so put a good job ad out, then have them record a one-minute video via the best of the role, what’s their nonfiction favorite book, then screening, quick screening interview, that’s gonna whittle them down some, and then the hire manager interview, then the paid tax project, they present it, Q&A, so you really get to see them at work on what is their work going to be, simulate the project, and then the CEO has his own product. So that’s awesome. So let’s talk about your book, Software as a Science. So what’s the premise of the book? What is it about? And why did you write it?

Yeah. So it’s co-authored with my partners at SaaS Academy and our head coach. And the premise was this, it’s like between the partners at SaaS Academy, we founded nine companies, we’ve got five exits, we’ve got a whole bench of executive coaches who all have multiple companies under their belts as well. And we’ve coached a couple thousand B2B SaaS founders at this point. And I’m not saying that to brag. What I’m saying is that we’ve got a large breadth of at-bats, right? Talking to founders, diagnosing their problems in their companies, in our companies, and we found some astounding commonalities between all of these companies, right? And, you know, deal size didn’t change it. Industry didn’t change it. Single founder versus co-founder didn’t change it. Bootstrap versus venture-back didn’t change it. Regardless of anything, the growth model of a recurring revenue business is very, very, very consistent across all the different types and niches and flavors of SaaS companies. And we spent eight years inside of SaaS Academy building all the growth playbooks that help people break through revenue plateaus and fix the very specific problems that we see keep coming up over and over and over again. And this book is our decision to finally share those frameworks with the world outside of our coaching program. Because we never really let the stuff outside the building, outside of our coaching practice. And so the overall idea here, when I said in the beginning, right, it’s like 10% art, 90% science. The art is your unique stance in the market, right? It’s the problem that you’re solving. A lot of the people we work with, and I think a lot of the people who bootstrap SaaS companies in general are usually an industry expert in some other industry and then they have this unmet need and there’s no software out there that solves it and they do what any great entrepreneur does. They say, I’m not gonna tolerate this, I’m gonna go make the software that I wish I always had, I’m gonna go solve the problem, so on and so forth. I love that, it’s how my first company was born and it’s how a lot of great companies are born.

Yeah, a lot of people do that.

Yeah, and so that’s the art. And the reality that a lot of people don’t necessarily want to admit is that you can brute force your company to 10 or $20,000 in monthly recurring revenue. It’s hard and it takes a lot of work, but you can get it there without really knowing what it is you’re doing, right? And that is okay. And that’s like the archetype of many of the founders who come into SaaS Academy. Yes, we have some who have a lot more figured out and they’re doing multiple six figures in revenue when they come in. But our typical person we work with is between 10 and 30K a month in revenue, and they’ve hit their first revenue plateau, and it’s such a challenging adolescent stage for a business, Steve, right? Because it’s big enough where it’s real, and you don’t wanna turn it off, but it’s small enough where you can’t build a team and build a life around it. It’s just like a puppy with huge paws. It’s gonna be big one day, but it’s not there yet. So we spent a lot of time figuring out the mechanics of why this happens. And so at the end of the day, the other 90% of this is relatively predictable. I think Robert Smith from Vista Equity said, he makes this joke all the time. He says, software tastes like chicken, you know, 80% of what they do is the same. And so the premise of the book is step one is we teach people the math behind their revenue plateau. Right? Because I think every revenue plateau at the end of the day is when the amount of new revenue that you’re getting from the market and the amount of churned revenue that’s leaving the building starts to equalize and you’re still spending all the money on customer acquisition, but you’re not growing, you’re not sure why, you’re like, ah, I can’t figure this out. And then how to solve it. And there’s only three levers you can pull to solve this problem, right? When you hit that growth ceiling, you can get more customers every single month, you can retain them longer and keep more revenue in the building, or you can make your customers more valuable. A metric for that is average revenue per account. You can bring that up and that at least brings the revenue level up. The thing that’s interesting is a lot of founders have a decent idea on how to do these things, but they’re not necessarily sure in what order to do them, or when to do them, or what the right benchmark is to consider something solved before you move on to the next thing. That’s where the math gets really, really interesting. ‘Cause a lot of the time, what we see most often is that people just try to solve everything with getting more customers. And then they keep investing more into customer acquisition and then they run out of cash and like, damn, I don’t know what to do. Maybe I should turn this off. Or a lot of the times, if you invest more in retention to make the business more efficient and then put some effort into expanding customer value, which gives you more resources that then you go ramp acquisition, you can actually have a much more dramatic growth curve over the life of your business. And so we teach people the math behind that. And then the entire, it’s in the first two chapters, and the entire rest of the book is basically our top three frameworks for each of those levers that have never been outside of SaaS Academy before. We walk people through in the book on how to go solve the problem and the right mental models for thinking about those components of the company. Ideally, they can read a chapter, learn something, install it in the business. We’re shipping a whole bunch of resources online to go with it and start solving their problem. So, that’s the book in a nutshell.

That’s very interesting. So, you close the back door, you make sure you’re not losing the customers. That’s number one. And then you increase the value that the customer gets so that there’s even less reason for them to leave. And then you have a solid foundation, you get more profit, hopefully more higher margin, and then you can invest without the fear of losing those customers.

For sure. That’s the most common sequencing, but it’s not true for every company. And that’s the beauty of the math is that we’re even like building calculators and software to go do this, is that when you plug your numbers in, we can tell you which one you should solve, right? So, I mean, let’s say your churn is actually very, very low. That sequence that I just walked through wouldn’t be appropriate for your business. But the important part is that we would be able to mathematically identify the sequence that will net your business the most gains and put that in front of you with the approach that we outlined in the book.

So are you becoming a SaaS company yourselves?

No, it’s funny I say it that way because like I really want to, I love building software. But no, we are working on some internal tooling just for our coaching clients where we’re actually like programmatically doing this where we can capture their data and do everything that we just explained in the book and that I just explained to you and actually put that out as like a tool for our executive coaches to help use or to help coach people with. So we are working on a project inside the building there that we’re testing, but no, I don’t, we don’t have it on our immediate roadmap, but you know, Steve, never say never. So you see what the market needs from us. We’re focused on getting the knowledge out the door first in the book, and then we’ll see what comes of it.

Okay, so that’s great. So we’ve got a great framework for hiring. And the other is the mental model for SaaS companies, close the back door, increase the value, and then add more customers, not just about sales. It’s about keeping customers happy. And then obviously there are different SaaS companies need different recipes in your book. So if people would like to learn more, can they buy the book already? Is it out already?

Not yet. It’s coming out in October, so it will be out. We will be screaming about it on every inch of the internet that we can possibly get into. So yeah, you’ll be able to get more info on that. It’ll be up on SaaS Academy, which is SaaSAcademy.com. I’ll have it up on all my stuff, my website and socials, mattverlaque.com. So it’ll be everywhere. But yeah, it’s coming out, coming out early October is the plan.

All right. So for those who are listening, make sure you check out the SaaS Academy. You follow Matt Verlaque on mattverlaque.com to make sure that you don’t miss the announcement of Software as a Science. So Matt, thank you very much for sharing all these good ideas as great framework. And for those who are listening, make sure you follow us on YouTube and LinkedIn so that you don’t miss an episode. Thanks for coming, Matt, and thanks for listening. 

 

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